Does the Solaris digital out - fit this digital in?

Discuss John Bowen Synths - Solaris
Zahush76
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Does the Solaris digital out - fit this digital in?

Post by Zahush76 »

Hi everyone. While waiting for the solaris to be ready, i'm trying to figure out different ways to connect it to my audio interface, in other ways besides using the 1\4" jacks.
I understand the Solaris has digital in and out (i saw a pic of the rear connections - and there's a gery and white DO DI, which i guess stand for Digital In and Digital Out). But it's labeled as "S\PDIF". To the best of my knowledge, s\pdif connections are supposed to be round, and in red and white.
Have a look at the rear of my interface (impact twin), and please tell me where and how (and perhaps IF) i can connect the Solaris to it:

Image

As you can see, there are S\PDIF connections in the middle. But there are also DI \ DO connections to the far left.

Another question is - does this replace connecting audio thru the analog in\out using 1\4" jacks?

Thanks!
scope4live
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Re: Does the Solaris digital out - fit this digital in?

Post by scope4live »

You should definately try the Digital I/Os. I use TosLink to AES/EBU Hosa ODL-312 but you can go TosLink to SP/DIF. Check out www.monoprice.com
But many converters are hidden and you musn't give up as they have 1/4" to ADAT and many odd converters to fit all occasions.
To me the Digital is the only way to use Solaris, its so big and powerful sounding with precision to boot.
I believe you could run analog and digital simultaneaously if thats what you meant. But definately check out the digital quality as soon as you get the unit, I can't go back to analog as my XITE has all I/Os in use now.
Found a TC Electronic Reverb w/ ADAT and its really nice, better than DSP reverb and Native is just all tails and no meat so I disable it whenever Kontakt developers try and mask their imperfect sample instruments with it. A hardware reverb really makes them quite realistic as long as the instruments aren't bathed in it.
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Zahush76
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Re: Does the Solaris digital out - fit this digital in?

Post by Zahush76 »

scope4live wrote:You should definately try the Digital I/Os. I use TosLink to AES/EBU Hosa ODL-312 but you can go TosLink to SP/DIF. Check out http://www.monoprice.com
But many converters are hidden and you musn't give up as they have 1/4" to ADAT and many odd converters to fit all occasions.
To me the Digital is the only way to use Solaris, its so big and powerful sounding with precision to boot.
I believe you could run analog and digital simultaneaously if thats what you meant. But definately check out the digital quality as soon as you get the unit, I can't go back to analog as my XITE has all I/Os in use now.
Found a TC Electronic Reverb w/ ADAT and its really nice, better than DSP reverb and Native is just all tails and no meat so I disable it whenever Kontakt developers try and mask their imperfect sample instruments with it. A hardware reverb really makes them quite realistic as long as the instruments aren't bathed in it.
Thanks Jimmy, but i think i got a little lost with your detailed answer.
What i wanted to know is:
1) Is it possible to connect the Solaris to this audio interface using ONLY the digital in\out - and without having to use the 1\4" analog in\out. If so - that would "free" 2 analog ins and outs for other instruments i have in mind in the future.

2) With connecting only thru the digital in\out - i can hear the solaris thru my monitors?

3) If you look at the audio interface - do i use the grey\white in\out to the left? How does that work? They seem to covered by some kind of rubber.

So let me see if i understood you correctly. You suggest to use the digital cables that are in the link you posted, connected to the DI \DO on the bottom left in the audio interface piture (and not the spdif), and i get to hear the solaris without the need of using the analog in\out.

I just lost you when you started talking about converters. I want to know what can i do with what i have.
marzzz
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Re: Does the Solaris digital out - fit this digital in?

Post by marzzz »

I think it is possible to use the direct digital outs into a similar digital interface, but there may be a 48K limitation based on the hardware? John, what say you?
lotus-eater
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Re: Does the Solaris digital out - fit this digital in?

Post by lotus-eater »

You will need a converter to go from Solaris' TOSLINK output to your interface's RCA S/PDIF input.

I'm planning on using Solaris' S/PDIF output as well, but it's a bit of a shame we can't get the full 96khz output from the synth digitally.
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Re: Does the Solaris digital out - fit this digital in?

Post by John Bowen »

Zahush76,
So, there are 2 types of S/PDIF connectors. The red and white you see on your box are often called 'RCA connectors'. the other type is with optical connectors, usually called TOSLINK (for Toshiba Link), and these send the digital signal via light, and are often thought to be better than the RCA wire connectors...but both will transmit high quality digital data. So, what Jimmy is pointing out is that you will need to purchase a small box that converts optical TOSLINK output to RCA output; then you can use the Solaris S/PDIF with your interface. (The TOSLINK connectors, also known as EIAJ optical, are rectangular jacks also known as JIS F05 connectors.)

The DI and DO jacks you have are also JIS F05 connectors, but because it states 'ADAT/TOS' next to the connectors, I'm assuming these DI and DO are for ADAT light pipe signals, which are not compatible with S/PDIF signals. See this quote from Wikipedia:

"Other terms are sometimes used for technology similar to TOSLINK, such as ADAT Lightpipe or simply ADAT Optical. These are most often seen in the professional music/audio industry. While the ADAT Lightpipe format uses the same JIS F05 connectors as TOSLINK, the ADAT Lightpipe data format is not compatible with S/PDIF."

Because the S/PDIF standard is included in the SHARC dsp that we use in Solaris, that is the digital interface we chose.

As to the comment from lotus-eater...you can get the Solaris to output 96kHz output if you slave it from a 96kHz Master clock. Just connect a 96kHz signal to the S/PDIF Input on the Solaris, and there you have it!
marzzz
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Re: Does the Solaris digital out - fit this digital in?

Post by marzzz »

John Bowen wrote:you can get the Solaris to output 96kHz output if you slave it from a 96kHz Master clock. Just connect a 96kHz signal to the S/PDIF Input on the Solaris, and there you have it!
Ah, this is good then!
scope4live
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Re: Does the Solaris digital out - fit this digital in?

Post by scope4live »

It just requires 2 x TosLink's if you are using Solaris' TosLink to the Hosa ODL-312 to an AES/EBU unit like I have on the XITE-1.
It gags my XITE-1s resources for no apparent reason as I hear no difference from 48k to 96k, but from 44.1k to 48k is very noticable, and since the FATness of Solaris is from code not analog warmth, the Digital I/Os simply clarify the already FAT, Drippy, Buzzy FAT BASTARD sound Solaris devastates it's competition with.
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Zahush76
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Re: Does the Solaris digital out - fit this digital in?

Post by Zahush76 »

scope4live wrote:It just requires 2 x TosLink's if you are using Solaris' TosLink to the Hosa ODL-312 to an AES/EBU unit like I have on the XITE-1.
It gags my XITE-1s resources for no apparent reason as I hear no difference from 48k to 96k, but from 44.1k to 48k is very noticable, and since the FATness of Solaris is from code not analog warmth, the Digital I/Os simply clarify the already FAT, Drippy, Buzzy FAT BASTARD sound Solaris devastates it's competition with.
Thanks.

1) When i'll get mine (... in a couple of months), i'll try this with different settings. I have to check what sampling rate my audio interface is capable of anyway. But either way - this seems quite a bit of hassle, so i might just stick with the analog 1\4" in\out.

2) Speaking of the Fatness of the solaris - i noticed you stopped makind those wonderful audio snippets on soundcloud. Still waiting for those 50 presets you made :-)
lotus-eater
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Re: Does the Solaris digital out - fit this digital in?

Post by lotus-eater »

John Bowen wrote:As to the comment from lotus-eater...you can get the Solaris to output 96kHz output if you slave it from a 96kHz Master clock. Just connect a 96kHz signal to the S/PDIF Input on the Solaris, and there you have it!
Awesome! That's great to know.
matocaster
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Re: Does the Solaris digital out - fit this digital in?

Post by matocaster »

[quote=
2) Still waiting for those 50 presets you made :-)[/quote]

Here ya go!

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=16107
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Zahush76
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Re: Does the Solaris digital out - fit this digital in?

Post by Zahush76 »

matocaster wrote:
2) Still waiting for those 50 presets you made :-)[/quote wrote:
Here ya go!

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=16107
Thanks, but that's not what i meant.
Jimmy said he's going to make sound snippets of these presets.
As i'm still waiting for my solaris - i have no use of the presets themselves at the moment. Just their demos.
scope4live
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Re: Does the Solaris digital out - fit this digital in?

Post by scope4live »

Zahush76 wrote: Speaking of the Fatness of the solaris - i noticed you stopped makind those wonderful audio snippets on soundcloud. Still waiting for those 50 presets you made :-)
You're killing me mang... :oops:
I am drowning in Modular synth modules I am MASTERBETA testing, and trying to validate the conversion of the SE-1X into a Modular synth ( 2 years of work) so I forgot my duties to my fellow Solaritites. Please forgive me, Monday night-Tuesday I can do the explanations and record some more.
Thanks for reminding me...
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Zahush76
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Re: Does the Solaris digital out - fit this digital in?

Post by Zahush76 »

John Bowen wrote:Zahush76,
So, there are 2 types of S/PDIF connectors. The red and white you see on your box are often called 'RCA connectors'. the other type is with optical connectors, usually called TOSLINK (for Toshiba Link), and these send the digital signal via light, and are often thought to be better than the RCA wire connectors...but both will transmit high quality digital data. So, what Jimmy is pointing out is that you will need to purchase a small box that converts optical TOSLINK output to RCA output; then you can use the Solaris S/PDIF with your interface. (The TOSLINK connectors, also known as EIAJ optical, are rectangular jacks also known as JIS F05 connectors.)

The DI and DO jacks you have are also JIS F05 connectors, but because it states 'ADAT/TOS' next to the connectors, I'm assuming these DI and DO are for ADAT light pipe signals, which are not compatible with S/PDIF signals. See this quote from Wikipedia:

"Other terms are sometimes used for technology similar to TOSLINK, such as ADAT Lightpipe or simply ADAT Optical. These are most often seen in the professional music/audio industry. While the ADAT Lightpipe format uses the same JIS F05 connectors as TOSLINK, the ADAT Lightpipe data format is not compatible with S/PDIF."

Because the S/PDIF standard is included in the SHARC dsp that we use in Solaris, that is the digital interface we chose.
Ok,still a bit confused. I understand i got to get something like this, right?

Image

What confuses me a bit is the fact that it has one optical input - but two rca outputs (red & white). Does this mean i'm sending one cable from the Solaris to the converter box, and two rca cables from the converter to my interface?
Also, the rca output on the pic above says "left\right" - while the RCA input on my interface says DI\DO (digital in & out). These are different functions. Am i suppose to consider them as sort of stereo left right - or digital in and out...?
As to the comment from lotus-eater...you can get the Solaris to output 96kHz output if you slave it from a 96kHz Master clock. Just connect a 96kHz signal to the S/PDIF Input on the Solaris, and there you have it!
I can set my projects in cubase to 96khz & 32 bit float. I see that it changes the sample rate on my interface. Is the Solaris supposed to output 96khz all by it self - just from connecting it with the configuration mentioned above (spdif to converter to rca)? Or is there another connection needed? Maybe additional settings? In other words - what do i have to do in order to slave it to my cubase's sample rate (or to the interface which is slaved to cubase?)?

p.s.
What's the difference (if any) between saying that the audio output of the Solaris is (or could be 96khz) - and between saying that all the internal proccessing (including modulation speeds etc) is done in 96khz? Are these the same thing? Related\connected?
If the Solaris is slaved to, say, cubase which is set to 44khz - will all the internal proccessing in the Solaris suddenly turn to 44khz?
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Re: Does the Solaris digital out - fit this digital in?

Post by John Bowen »

Let's address each question separately:

So, even more confusion, thanks to the use of the RCA-style jacks for digital signals in the case of your interface shown in the first photo at the start of this topic, and as analog outputs in the case of your second photo. They use the same jack, but the signals are different.

In your top photo, you have the abbreviation DO and DI, which is Digital Out and Digital In. Here the entire stereo signal rides on one connector, and you are sending a digital signal (serial data steam). In the other onto, you have the typical analog Left & Right outputs, so that box is converting the stereo digital signal (coming in via either the toslink or RCA connector) and being converted to analog stereo outs.

So, the converter in the second photo is NOT what you want! You need a box that simply takes the digital data stream as Toslink for input, and uses the RCA jack for the digital output.
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