other Solaris hardware ideas

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John Bowen
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other Solaris hardware ideas

Post by John Bowen »

Hello Everyone!

I wanted to do a sort of 'marketing survey’ here, since I don’t have gobs of money to hire out a research firm (or whatever bigger companies do).

I’d like to find out what level of interest there would be in the following additional Solaris products:

1) A keyboardless “expander” type, a la the Oberheim Expander. Complete front panel with all displays, but probably without wheels, joystick, ribbon, and obviously, keyboard.

2) A small 1 u rack idea, with no front panel at all - just power On/Off, Volume control. Would need a decent software editor.

3) A 1 or 2 unit rack with a small display on it, possibly with a keypad as well.

4) A tabletop style with only 1 graphics display on it, and only the 10 knobs below that display for editing.


Obviously, pricing for each of these would probably be the first thing people would ask. This depends on how many I would need to build of each to satisfy the interest.

So, please feel free to post your responses here - include the price you think you’d pay for the unit as well, and let’s see what the general mood of the Solaris community would like to see most!

Cheers,
John Bowen
Octupole
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Re: other Solaris hardware ideas

Post by Octupole »

Hello John,

this is a great thread. While our beloved Solaris is being brought to perfection by the joint efforts of Jim and you, you are looking further into the future. Great :-)

Here are my personal thoughts about your proposals.

Options 1 and 4 would probably have non-Solaris owners as target audience. Full (or slightly reduced) comfort of the great user interface without keyboard at a (probably reduced price) yould be interesting for a good part of the Synth community.

Options 2 and 3 would probably target current Solaris owners looking for an extension of their Solaris (like me). Option 2 would be along the lines of the former Waldorf WaveSlave, which was (to my knowledge) a mere voice expansion to the Waldorf MicroWave (1). Option 3 would probably offer a bit more comfort due to the display.

Option 2 would be interesting for me, if MIDI multi mode would be implemented, and if the unit could not only be controlled by a decent software editor, but also by a "standard" Solaris acting as "master". (I am aware of the fact that the implementation of Multi-Mode is not at all trivial.) Plugging a Solaris "slave" as voice expansion to my "main" Solaris, while controlling everything via the main unit, would be really really cool. I would be willing to pay 1500 US$ for a 1 u ten voice expansion, and 500 US$ for each ten voices more - i.e. 2500 US$ for a voice expander with 30 voices and full Multi Mode, being controlled by a Solaris master ... just dreaming ... :-)

Just my two Rappen.

Best regards, Manfred
John Bowen
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Re: other Solaris hardware ideas

Post by John Bowen »

Octupole wrote: Wed Nov 08, 2017 11:26 am Option 2 would be interesting for me, if MIDI multi mode would be implemented, and if the unit could not only be controlled by a decent software editor, but also by a "standard" Solaris acting as "master". (I am aware of the fact that the implementation of Multi-Mode is not at all trivial.) Plugging a Solaris "slave" as voice expansion to my "main" Solaris, while controlling everything via the main unit, would be really really cool. I would be willing to pay 1500 US$ for a 1 u ten voice expansion, and 500 US$ for each ten voices more - i.e. 2500 US$ for a voice expander with 30 voices and full Multi Mode, being controlled by a Solaris master ... just dreaming ... :-)
Except for the MultiMode function, what you describe is already happening now - I have a Solaris keyboard running a prototype 1u rack Solaris in this fashion. MultiMode will require quite a lot of work, as it adds a new object type with its own set of parameters and so on.

-john b.
kristijanf
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Re: other Solaris hardware ideas

Post by kristijanf »

I would avoid 1u option with editor due to constant daw development.

one screen desktop version would be my prefered option with somewhat limited possibilities,
filter section knobs, envelope knobs and waveform knobs.
so, unit based more on presets ready for some tweaking than complete programming synth.

I am a composer, not a programmer, so i get idea with good patches, which i edit.
Programming takes too too much time for me.

Additionally, if even possible, instead joystick on the rack, maybe very small x-y screen like on Roland V-synth??
david
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Re: other Solaris hardware ideas

Post by david »

John - great hardware ideas:

However, I think you should also consider ongoing software development as a product source for you.

There are so many happy owners, and I think we would pay to fund ongoing programming upgrades. It would be great if you raised some capital to keep taking software development forward to OS to 2.0 and beyond!

Multi-sample objects
Easy sample loading (perhaps via a vst editor)
Midi-Control mode: Using knobs for midi-cc
Programming display board for modern LCD/OLED upgrade :)

Would new hardware design take resources away from software development?

If so, is the current Solaris exactly where you want it to be?
kristijanf
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Re: other Solaris hardware ideas

Post by kristijanf »

I generally think Solaris is sonically more powerful machine than P06, so for desktop version of Solaris, i would give slightly more than for P06.
david
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Re: other Solaris hardware ideas

Post by david »

John,

Regarding the hardware choice:

Option 1 is clearly the answer:

The UI of the Solaris is a big part of its magic. Taking away knobs and screens is not the right plan.

Also, do you really want to spend all that time re-designing the hardware interface to work with just a few knobs?

That doesn't sound fun. Pull off the keyboard and call it a day. Solaris Xpander.

If it doesn't have the (epic) hardware control interface, the Gearslutz crowd will likely also "cry VST" Keep the knobs and screens, you designed one the best hardware interfaces of all time, keep it.

Once again, adding to existing Solaris, software updates, hardware board updates (analog filter expansion! just kidding. not kidding? :)) is a good thing to do. Keep building for and selling to existing Solaris owners!!!

Also, regarding option 4, I can see a "cut down" version of the hardware maybe at some point, obviously a lower end of the market, blofeld type product. But then with a "cut down" option 4 you have more (and different type of) buyers, lower price point, more aftermarket support, etc.
cgoodhines
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Re: other Solaris hardware ideas

Post by cgoodhines »

Ditto. I loved my Xpander back in the day. I MIDI'd it to my Matrix 12 and it was like no other.
The Solaris would look good in this 'cabinet'. Especially in White!
It in a way, resembles the Xpander with the LCD layout.
John Bowen
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Re: other Solaris hardware ideas

Post by John Bowen »

david wrote: Sat Nov 11, 2017 9:46 am John,

Regarding the hardware choice:

....If it doesn't have the (epic) hardware control interface, the Gearslutz crowd will likely also "cry VST"
indeed :-)
John Bowen
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Re: other Solaris hardware ideas

Post by John Bowen »

Seems like there’s only 4 of you reading this topic! That’s a little disappointing after 2 weeks. Anyone else have an opinion??
david
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Re: other Solaris hardware ideas

Post by david »

John Bowen wrote: Wed Nov 22, 2017 10:07 am Seems like there’s only 4 of you reading this topic! That’s a little disappointing after 2 weeks. Anyone else have an opinion??
Perhaps owners don't regularly check this forum, but I'm sure they will want to help . So..Three options:

1) Send an email or survey out to all Solaris owners. You will get alot more feedback. An annual Solaris owner survey is an idea.

2) Post the question on Gearslutz/Muffwiggler (and hold your breath). You'll get good feedback for sure, prob not all of it positive :mrgreen:

3) A regular email update newsletter to all owners, with latest forum posts.
synthwalker
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Re: other Solaris hardware ideas

Post by synthwalker »

As far as Solaris is already a kind of investment, I would only go for a blackbox -10/20 voice expander driven from Solaris front panel in Sysex with Midi overflow. It would be a waste of money (and maybe long-term maintenance) to have 6 more screens and 42 more encoders. Because I'm already a Solaris (very happy) owner, what I need is more polyphony and more multi chanels (I want to use those 8 outputs).
I guess that for none Solaris owners, the other options could be interesting, especially the Xpander-like one.
I don't like the idea of a VST plug-out driven from software, unless this could work as described in my point #1.

So my Solarex would have the audio board with 10 voices, all inputs/outputs, Midi, USB, CF, power in/out (to share the Solaris PSU if possible) and basta... no KB, screen, wheels, joystick, ribbon, push-buttons, encoder (ok for a volume pot and why not a Midi activity LED). Option for adding a second voice/input/output board in the box.
John Bowen
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Re: other Solaris hardware ideas

Post by John Bowen »

synthwalker wrote: Thu Nov 23, 2017 10:36 am As far as Solaris is already a kind of investment, I would only go for a blackbox -10/20 voice expander driven from Solaris front panel in Sysex with Midi overflow. It would be a waste of money (and maybe long-term maintenance) to have 6 more screens and 42 more encoders. Because I'm already a Solaris (very happy) owner, what I need is more polyphony and more multi chanels (I want to use those 8 outputs).
I guess that for none Solaris owners, the other options could be interesting, especially the Xpander-like one.
I don't like the idea of a VST plug-out driven from software, unless this could work as described in my point #1.

So my Solarex would have the audio board with 10 voices, all inputs/outputs, Midi, USB, CF, power in/out (to share the Solaris PSU if possible) and basta... no KB, screen, wheels, joystick, ribbon, push-buttons, encoder (ok for a volume pot and why not a Midi activity LED). Option for adding a second voice/input/output board in the box.
Well, this is pretty much what the prototype 1u rack is, exactly. You have the separate outputs from there, so you don’t get voices out of the same main keyboard, of course - you just have to mix them externally, like with all other separate hardware. We thought to make this product some years ago, but there’s really been no demand at all, not to mention that we didn’t have SysEx fully functioning :-)

So, what price would you expect for this, Eric?

jb
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Re: other Solaris hardware ideas

Post by Hook »

I actually keep up with the FB group more than here, but anyway.

#1 is the clear winner to me -- lots of people want the sound and interface, but don't want to eat up the space of a keyboard/ribbon/wheels/etc. It would also likely be the simplest to develop and you could possibly even get some repeat Solaris buyers (I'd think pretty hard about it...).

#2/3 has some case history behind it, e.g. the Virus Rack, Wavestation SR, and Evolver Rack. My instinct is that none of these were as successful as their main models and required a lot of software support. This seems like more work than #1 with less upside. I could see pursuing this if you could make it into a 10 voice expansion for a Solaris, because you'd have a lot of people interested in that right off the bad.

#4 is similar to the Prophet 12 desktop which...kinda worked? It's better than not having any controls, but I suppose worst case is that you had a single LCD display, keypad, and dedicated softkeys everywhere, in something roughly the size of a Virus Snow Desktop. I think this would come down to cost.

#1 at $2995 is a winner I think. More expensive but far nicer than a Ti2 Desktop, and only marginally more expensive than a Modal 002 (albeit the Modal has 12 voice polyphony and analog filters and is very high tech, but as a former owner...I much prefer my Solaris)

#4 at $1995 puts it head to head against a Prophet 12, which is a dicey competition (I like the Solaris better, but many people will argue the P12's analog filter and polyphony would give it an advantage).

I think a Solaris 2 with updated DSPs (I assuming you're using Sharcs are something similar) that increases voice count, along with OLED displays (yes yes, I know there are reasons that OLED has issues, but the reality is that much of the industry has already moved onto them) and an internal PSU, would be a nice incremental bump too. I'd buy one immediately :)

If you're looking for mild investment, hit me up, happy to fund a prototype of a Solaris 2 :D
kristijanf
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Re: other Solaris hardware ideas

Post by kristijanf »

I think there are more people interested than only few of us here.
But most members of forum are Solaris owners, who dont need rack or desktop version.
So there should be a way to reach other potentially interested audience for such product.

I would personally preorder any of 4 versions, but prefer desktop, or maybe Modal 002 2u type of unit with big screen interface.
There should be at least basic editing option without daw and computer.
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