I move the joystick - and the bpm goes nuts

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Zahush76
Posts: 108
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2012 12:33 am

I move the joystick - and the bpm goes nuts

Post by Zahush76 » Fri Jul 26, 2013 4:01 am

Here's what happens when i have a simple initial patch with the Arp on. I move the joystick - which isn't assigned as a modulation source - and the bpm goes nuts. I've tried this with internal clock and external. Same result. I've rebooted - same result.
I've noticed it while going thru the new presets by Robert wittek which makes extensive use of the joystick. He has some presets with arp\seq, and the joystick affects the sound.I noticed it also affects bpm. I thought i should try it on a basic initiall patch with nothing but pulse wave, arp, and nothing assigned to anything for modulation. This is what it sounds like when i move the joystick:

https://soundcloud.com/#zahush76/solari ... ck-bpm-bug

edit: just noticed this also happens when i move from preset to preset. If i go from one preset that has, say, a pad - and i move on to the next preset which has an arp or seq - than it begins by the bpm going all over the place until it settles down, and stops on the bpm it's supposed to be.

2nd edit: it also happens when i move the modwheel. The bpm changes, and after a few seconds returns to the original bpm - as soon as i stop touching it, and it doesn't matter what's its position.

Zahush76
Posts: 108
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2012 12:33 am

Re: I move the joystick - and the bpm goes nuts

Post by Zahush76 » Sat Jul 27, 2013 4:06 am

Update:
I noticed this doesn't happen when the local off is "off" (i.e. when the keyboard is routed directly to the synth), and does happen when the local off is "on". In that state - even if i simply play the keyboard and move the modwheel rapidly, the sound freezes and\or slows down, as if the keyboard is "sluggish".
When the solaris - as a master keyboard - is routed to plugins\vst's, than everything's fine.
When it's routed to itself or other hardware external synths - than this happens.
Btw, if it means something - when this happens (i move the joystick or modwheel) i see the bpm value changing constantly in crazy increments (from 126 to 100 to 3000 and back).
When the solaris is routed to softsynts and i move the joystick and\or the modwheel - the bpm on the main screen stays the same.

What could this mean?

synthwalker
Posts: 62
Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2011 3:16 am
Location: France

Re: I move the joystick - and the bpm goes nuts

Post by synthwalker » Sat Jul 27, 2013 12:36 pm

It means JB should hire you as beta tester for the next OS...

jaykeel
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Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2010 5:53 am

Re: I move the joystick - and the bpm goes nuts

Post by jaykeel » Sat Jul 27, 2013 3:19 pm

Agreed...

Zahush76
Posts: 108
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2012 12:33 am

Re: I move the joystick - and the bpm goes nuts

Post by Zahush76 » Sat Jul 27, 2013 9:30 pm

You're both correct of course. It's obviousy my fault that my unit came out this way, and it's very clear i'm "enjoying" this situation.
Happy that everything is fine with your perfect solaris units.

marzzz
Posts: 221
Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2008 8:07 pm

Re: I move the joystick - and the bpm goes nuts

Post by marzzz » Sat Jul 27, 2013 10:04 pm

I think your Solaris is possessed.... :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

John Bowen
Site Admin
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Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2007 3:00 am

Re: I move the joystick - and the bpm goes nuts

Post by John Bowen » Fri Aug 02, 2013 10:23 pm

Because Zahush76 is routing the Solaris MIDI back to itself, there's a MIDI clock loop going on - make sure ClkSrc (Clock Source) in your MIDI page is set to Internal or External - and NOT Send, otherwise the Solaris will be sending and receiving clocks at the same time, which will really confuse things.

Zahush76
Posts: 108
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2012 12:33 am

Re: I move the joystick - and the bpm goes nuts

Post by Zahush76 » Sat Aug 03, 2013 9:18 am

John Bowen wrote:Because Zahush76 is routing the Solaris MIDI back to itself, there's a MIDI clock loop going on - make sure ClkSrc (Clock Source) in your MIDI page is set to Internal or External - and NOT Send, otherwise the Solaris will be sending and receiving clocks at the same time, which will really confuse things.
From day 1 i have set midi clock to "external", so that's not the reason. It's also strange to me that the problems only occur when i move the Joystick, modwheel, or change presets. Otherwise, when the Solaris is routed back to itself and i only play the keys - there are no problems. It's strange that this happens with these controls - and not when i engage the pitch wheel,aftertouch or ribbon controller.

John Bowen
Site Admin
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Re: I move the joystick - and the bpm goes nuts

Post by John Bowen » Sat Aug 03, 2013 9:25 am

Zahush76 wrote:....It's also strange to me that the problems only occur when i move the Joystick, modwheel, or change presets. Otherwise, when the Solaris is routed back to itself and i only play the keys - there are no problems. It's strange that this happens with these controls - and not when i engage the pitch wheel,aftertouch or ribbon controller.
This is because of the way MIDI controllers are handled in the stream - the pitch wheel signal gets 'special treatment' in the MIDI spec, and the ribbon controller does not send out MIDI at all. Not sure why aftertouch is not causing it, but the Mod Wheel and Joystick are definitely interacting with the MIDI feedback loop you are experiencing.

Zahush76
Posts: 108
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2012 12:33 am

Re: I move the joystick - and the bpm goes nuts

Post by Zahush76 » Sat Aug 03, 2013 1:06 pm

John Bowen wrote:Not sure why aftertouch is not causing it.
Never the less - i checked and checked again, and this does not happen when i engage aftertouch. It's also visible: when i move the joystick or modwhell, the bpm value on the display jumps all over the place even if i don't play a sound. When i apply aftertouch - the bpm value on the display remains the same. How can this be explained?

Neil
Posts: 49
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2011 7:23 am
Location: Germany

Re: I move the joystick - and the bpm goes nuts

Post by Neil » Sun Aug 04, 2013 2:40 am

Is this happening when you're routing midi (& our beloved NRPN's) thru Cubase and back to the Solaris? And does it stop when you unplug the Solaris midi input? BTW are you using USB or old school midi?
If you haven't already I suggest until we have resolved the Cubase NRPN issue that you disable NRPN Tx/Rx and just use the 5 assignable CC's for automation as a workaround.
FYI I'm using traditional midi/Cubase/ext BPM sync and tempo is rock solid.

Zahush76
Posts: 108
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2012 12:33 am

Re: I move the joystick - and the bpm goes nuts

Post by Zahush76 » Sun Aug 04, 2013 3:47 am

Neil wrote:Is this happening when you're routing midi (& our beloved NRPN's) thru Cubase and back to the Solaris? And does it stop when you unplug the Solaris midi input? BTW are you using USB or old school midi?
If you haven't already I suggest until we have resolved the Cubase NRPN issue that you disable NRPN Tx/Rx and just use the 5 assignable CC's for automation as a workaround.
FYI I'm using traditional midi/Cubase/ext BPM sync and tempo is rock solid.
Ever since i had problems with the whole NRPN issue - i have both TX\RX set to "off". So Solaris isn't sending or recieving NRPN.
I'm using midi and not usb. Somehow the usb connection is recognizing the Solaris by name, but it's not working so i'm using regular midi. Since i want to use Solaris as a master keyboard as well, i set the LocalOff to "on" - which means it's disconnecting the keyboard from the sound engine. So yeah, i'm routing Solaris into my interface, into cubase and back to Solaris - which shouldn't be a problem and should be pretty standard. People use synths to control and be controlled at the same time.
If this was a problem - than probably just playing the Solaris should have been a problem, but it's a fact that it's not. Problems are only when moving the joystick, modwheel, and while changing presets. And no problems when using aftertouch.

Tomorrow a friend is coming over with his Nord Stage so we'll try the same with the Nord. If it happens with the nord (with its modwheel - and we'll check how it syncs to cubase) than cubase is the problem. If everything goes out smoothly with the Nord than it pretty much narrows it down to Solaris.

Regarding bpm sync - here i can be quite certain that my Solaris unit has a problem. The fact is that all the other hardware synths connected to it (GRP, Vermona, Boomstar) and receive incoming clock from cubase - are in perfect sync. Wether it's the GRP's step sequncer, or lfo - or the lfo's of the Vermona & Boomstar. Perfect sync - even when the bpm info is going from cubase out to the Solaris, and from Solaris out to all the other synths.
Solaris, however, is going in and out of sync - even though it's set to external clock.

Patate le mgae
Posts: 136
Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2011 3:17 am

Re: I move the joystick - and the bpm goes nuts

Post by Patate le mgae » Sun Aug 04, 2013 8:25 am

Zahush76 wrote:
Neil wrote:
Regarding bpm sync - here i can be quite certain that my Solaris unit has a problem. The fact is that all the other hardware synths connected to it (GRP, Vermona, Boomstar) and receive incoming clock from cubase - are in perfect sync. Wether it's the GRP's step sequncer, or lfo - or the lfo's of the Vermona & Boomstar. Perfect sync - even when the bpm info is going from cubase out to the Solaris, and from Solaris out to all the other synths.
Solaris, however, is going in and out of sync - even though it's set to external clock.
I have the exact same problem, and the Solaris is losing the sync even if i don't touch joystick or Wheel, as i report in another thread.

John Bowen
Site Admin
Posts: 1730
Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2007 3:00 am

Re: I move the joystick - and the bpm goes nuts

Post by John Bowen » Sun Aug 04, 2013 8:59 am

Well, certainly something is not right, so please be patient until we can get a look at the clock issues. There won't be any bug chasing until all the August holidays are done, that I can tell you!

Neil
Posts: 49
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2011 7:23 am
Location: Germany

Re: I move the joystick - and the bpm goes nuts

Post by Neil » Tue Aug 06, 2013 5:00 am

I'm using my Solaris in the same manner as you Zahush - also using old school midi with local off & as a controller. My sync works fine (With Cubase 7) so maybe it is your unit.
Did you try downloading & reinstalling the latest system again in case it was corrupted?

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