New version of the OS ? Soon or not ?

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roginator
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Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2014 1:30 pm

Re: New version of the OS ? Soon or not ?

Post by roginator » Wed Aug 05, 2015 12:48 am

can't wait to see new OS .. I already thought to sell Solaris BUT this gives hope !

M-Prod
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Re: New version of the OS ? Soon or not ?

Post by M-Prod » Sat Aug 29, 2015 7:05 am

Any news?

John Bowen
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Re: New version of the OS ? Soon or not ?

Post by John Bowen » Sat Aug 29, 2015 7:22 am

Nothing yet...

Scott_V
Posts: 19
Joined: Mon Apr 01, 2013 8:02 am

Re: New version of the OS ? Soon or not ?

Post by Scott_V » Sun Nov 01, 2015 11:15 am

2+ years since the last software update, ~1 year since a new programmer was brought on board, ~1/2 year since a beta was reported...

If there a real update in the near future I'm sure most owners would appreciate an honest ETA and list of bug fixes expected to be resolved.

Too many experiences of "virtual" software promises never delivered from music instrument developers, and I don't want to see the Solaris be part of that club...

Thank you,
Scott

John Bowen
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Re: New version of the OS ? Soon or not ?

Post by John Bowen » Sun Nov 01, 2015 12:26 pm

Scott,

Holger is the ‘new programmer brought on board’, and he has produced a number of betas, up to v1.2.9 now. In March a problem appeared in the new hardware that uses the detented encoders, and this was a real mystery to him - and he didn’t resolve the issues until about a month ago. All of the work went into fixing this, and none of the regular bugs on the list were addressed...the one thing else that seems to have been fixed is that there is no more freezes on boot up.

Holger works at his own speed, and not always on the Solaris code - he has Sonic Core and also Drenkelfort Audio products he supports, so it’s not like there’s a full-time coder working solely on Solaris OS (for example, all of July and August were spent on a Drenkelfort Audio project). I know it’s frustratingly slow, but it is the situation for now. He is aware of the number of bugs that need to be fixed, and I’m hoping to have something to release around January, but I can’t tell you what exactly will be fixed by then.

Octupole
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Re: New version of the OS ? Soon or not ?

Post by Octupole » Sun Nov 01, 2015 12:53 pm

Very disappointing.

chapolin
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Re: New version of the OS ? Soon or not ?

Post by chapolin » Mon Nov 02, 2015 7:08 am

Hum, thank you for the new and keep in touch ... i wait for the sustain pedal and the sample ... but we will see ... take your time, it is already a chance if someone work on it, better than nothing :)
(A good thing, when I use the soloris as a master keyboard to control my andromeda, the sustain pedal connected on the solaris work good on the andromeda, without any bug :mrgreen: ... and it is a chance because, in waiting to buy a new one, my sustain pedal can not be connected to the andromeda because of her bad polarity).

John Bowen
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Re: New version of the OS ? Soon or not ?

Post by John Bowen » Tue Nov 03, 2015 5:13 am

After thinking over things this weekend, and re-reading what I posted, I think it’s time to clarify the situation about why it takes so long, and why Holger works on other projects at times, and not the Solaris.

It’s really not fair that my customers don’t know, but he did not want anyone to know, that he is doing the Solaris work for free. Holger makes no money from Solaris - not from sales, and not for any bug fixing. Therefore, when he needs income, he has to switch to his other projects, which is why, for example, all of July and August was dedicated to something else.

I have discussed this idea a little bit previously, but I want to ask you owners here again now - if I could offer Holger the idea of charging something for the next OS, then I think he would have the motivation and dedication to work on it full-time. Normally, I think the expectations by customers is that bug fixing should be free, and only features should justify payment, but considering the situation here, I feel that it’s going to be the only way we can have a focus on getting something done.

I’d like everyone here to post how much would be an acceptable price to charge for:

1) bug fixed only OS
2) bug fixed with new features

And please state what new features for what price you’d consider. I’d like to make some kind of arrangement with Holger that would give us a real timeline and goal in exchange for an idea of income for him.

Again, it’s something he had not wanted me to reveal, but I feel it’s not right that you shouldn’t know.

Thanks everyone!

John Bowen

reno
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Re: New version of the OS ? Soon or not ?

Post by reno » Tue Nov 03, 2015 1:51 pm

Hi John,

As we've discussed privately (but I would like to restate it here), the surest known way to prevent software abandon is to open source it.

Nobody should be forced to work on something for free if they don't want to.

But when you can't/won't do it, and it has the consequence of holding users hostage, then I believe it is a moral duty to give up exclusive control over the work in order not to spoil it for everyone, and accept to let people take matters into their own hands. Anything else is selfish.

Furthermore, with just a few hundred Solaris users (not all of them reading this or ready to pay), I don't think the math of funding a full time software engineer solely from their contributions in the long run sounds realistic.
They would also have reason to feel a bit cheated : I would have expected the cost of ongoing software updates to be budgeted in the synth price, so this is slightly disappointing (but I'm nobody to complain, having bought my Solaris used)

The only way I see something long lasting happening is through volunteer contributions, which requires open sourcing the Solaris OS (at least the non-DSP parts)

You are a boutique shop and this is a passion project, everyone here I think will understand you don't have the resources of a Korg or Roland for endless ongoing development.
The flip side is that you should also have the flexibility to do things differently from them wrt intellectual property...
This is happening in a way : from patch banks, to editors, even to manual translations, a lot has happened through the users themselves. This is good, and it's high time this also happened to OS updates if there's no credible alternative in sight.

John Bowen
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Re: New version of the OS ? Soon or not ?

Post by John Bowen » Wed Nov 04, 2015 6:58 am

reno wrote:
They would also have reason to feel a bit cheated : I would have expected the cost of ongoing software updates to be budgeted in the synth price, so this is slightly disappointing (but I'm nobody to complain, having bought my Solaris used).
I received a private email also expressing the idea that software updates and fixes should have been covered in the synth price. If I had used the standard markup that DSI, Moog, Korg, and most every other company does, the Solaris would have cost $8000, but I realize once you price your product to the public, the perception of value is set and no one cares about such things.

I guess what I’m saying here is, even if you had to pay 100, 200, or even more, per OS update, you still would be well under the amount you would have paid if the Solaris was priced ‘correctly’. Yes, the Solaris is a passion project, a labor of love, and most understand that, and I’m grateful for the patience everyone has shown. I’m very happy with the quality of sound and overall look and feel of what has been produced, even though I know it has its flaws, and I know others have expressed similar feelings. Of course I am frustrated with the situation - possibly having an open source option would help, but I don’t have that option. I’m just trying to think creatively, how I might be able to help get things done without interruptions, as I’ve mentioned.

M-Prod
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Re: New version of the OS ? Soon or not ?

Post by M-Prod » Wed Nov 04, 2015 10:07 am

Hi there,
I might suggest a kickstarter kind of construction, so people can pay up front and show their willingness to invest in further Dev. You in return could reply with a timeframe (as opposed to endless speculations)
I for one have stated before i would be willing to pay hundreds of euro's for a good set of new features. Look at what korg Charges for (kronos) sample libraries. The thing is I think you should come up with an initiative that we can respond to. Nevertheless my first thoughts: Create a 3 step investment on Kickstarter. Eg 1 50 for bugfixes, 2 150 for a few 'easy' features (drift , reverb, user wavetable, new fx) and another 200 for complex premium features (eg multi timbrality,fm features). Every time set the goal to 100 paying customers (so 5k, 15k, 20k) that should be enough to get you started.
Oh and my deepest respect for Holger for doing this for free.
Still, I would rather pay and know what's coming and when. Let's be real. Most Solaris owners make either good money making music or have some disposable income for our passion.

CA3080
Posts: 35
Joined: Sun Nov 25, 2007 11:06 am

Re: New version of the OS ? Soon or not ?

Post by CA3080 » Wed Nov 04, 2015 11:40 am

Hi John,

I certainly appreciate knowing what is (or isn't) going on regarding OS updates, so thank you for (finally) openly describing the current situation.
John Bowen wrote:I’d like everyone here to post how much would be an acceptable price to charge for:

1) bug fixed only OS
Actually, this is what I'd like to be the main priority for OS development right now. Some of Solaris' bugs unfortunately make Solaris a lot less desirable to use than I had hoped when I bought it. But I'm still impressed by the potential in Solaris, so I'd be prepared to pay, say $300-400, for a thoroughly bug fixed OS.
John Bowen wrote:2) bug fixed with new features

And please state what new features for what price you’d consider.
This is harder to answer. I guess different users have rather diverse views on what new features to request. For instance, I like to play the synth myself, so I have zero interest in new arpeggiator or sequencer functions. Maybe you could compile a list of feasible features requested and post here, possibly in form of some kind of poll. Then it would be easier to judge which features to realistically wish for and also to estimate how much those would be worth to me.

/P

wouter
Posts: 47
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Re: New version of the OS ? Soon or not ?

Post by wouter » Wed Nov 04, 2015 1:19 pm

$50 - $100 for bug fixes
$100 - $200 for bug fixes and new features (like reverb)

I personally would prefer a bug fixed OS first. You can spend years of sound exploration with the current feature set of the Solaris.
Electronic Music - www.insanic4.com | Music Production Resources - www.granucon.com | Netlabel - www.sonicengram.com | Multitouch Controller - www.gesturespark.com

EVOHE7
Posts: 1
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Re: New version of the OS ? Soon or not ?

Post by EVOHE7 » Wed Nov 04, 2015 3:47 pm

Hi

I would pay $600 for bug fixes with new features.

Like they said if they charge hundreds for kronos new libraries, adding new features to the solaris would turn it into a new more powerful synth.

Regards

chapolin
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Re: New version of the OS ? Soon or not ?

Post by chapolin » Wed Nov 04, 2015 4:49 pm

I really believe in open source things, but I think that there is not enough users to put the Solaris Os in the open source world.

I can give now 50 to 100 $ for the bugs.

I can also give some money each month with a subscription. I do that with ardour, I give 1 $ each month. It's not important but with a lot of users, on a long time, it can give a good amount and regular work !
For the Solaris I think that I can give 5 to 10 $ each month for 1, 2 ... years, as long as there need updates ... maybe it can be also a good solution to pay for a not total work on the os, but a regular work in the future ...

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