Solaris VS Jupiter 8 & OB8

Post your music made with the Solaris keyboard
alexg
Posts: 30
Joined: Sun Jul 24, 2011 1:33 pm
Location: France

Solaris VS Jupiter 8 & OB8

Post by alexg » Thu Aug 11, 2011 12:56 pm

Today I was at my studio without inspiration...
I spent my time to make some direct sound comparisons between my Solaris and some of my polyphonic analogue synths.

I began with the Jupiter 8.

My preset 11 is a simple & warm sound that I love.
The first thing to do is to place all the faders / cursors / selectors from the Jupiter in the position corresponding to its recorded preset.
After that, programming the Solaris to reproduce all this set up.
The process is quite long & difficult, especially to reproduce the good values for the filter & vca envelopes.

The most difficult part was to reproduce the small drift of the osc, filters and eg's, typical from the different voices of an analogue synth.
I was happy to find a nice way to slightly and randomly change the pitch of each new note on the Solaris :
I used an LFO, in S/H mode with a frequency (rate) = 0 but retrigered (at each note).
Very very small amount to modulate the pitch of the oscillators.

For the moment, it's not possible to choose an lfo as a source of modulation for the attacks, decay or release time of the envelopes.
John, it would be really nice !

I used an other modulation source (velocity) to slightly randomize the envelopes.

At the end of the process, I used the 3 band eq of the solaris to add some low end, and some mid around 3khz to match the color of the JP8.

I spent more than one hour per sound, but the result is nearly incredible. Difficult to make a difference between the 2 synths...

I did the same with another brass Jupiter 8 sound (using the second HPF filter) and then with one sound of my Oberheim OB8.

I suspect that the exercise would be perhaps more difficult with a Memorymoog or a CS60.
These two ones have stronger analogue drifts which give them their strong personality.
I'd like to test, but as I say, it's a long process...

I recorded these examples and uploaded them to soundcloud.

At the end of the Jupiter 8 example, I played on the Solaris the same note with release several time. One simple SAW osc without any filter or treatment.
First without the S/H modulation on the pitch and then with the modulation.
Without, it phases in a metallic way, with the modulation, it phases but much in a more nice and music way.

Here are the links. Wave files.
For each small phrase played, it's first the Solaris then the JP8 or OB8.

http://soundcloud.com/alexg2/solaris-vs-jupiter-8
http://soundcloud.com/alexg2/solaris-vs-oberheim-ob8

With this test, I don't want to prove that the Solaris is able to replace the old analogue synths of my studio.
But well, I'm very impressed.
If I should keep only one of my synth, it would be this one…
It gives me this analogue touch plus all its digital possibilities.

John Bowen
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Re: Solaris VS Jupiter 8 & OB8

Post by John Bowen » Thu Aug 11, 2011 4:52 pm

alexg wrote:The most difficult part was to reproduce the small drift of the osc, filters and eg's, typical from the different voices of an analogue synth.
I was happy to find a nice way to slightly and randomly change the pitch of each new note on the Solaris :
I used an LFO, in S/H mode with a frequency (rate) = 0 but retrigered (at each note).
Very very small amount to modulate the pitch of the oscillators.

For the moment, it's not possible to choose an lfo as a source of modulation for the attacks, decay or release time of the envelopes.
John, it would be really nice !
Thanks, Alex, for posting these! Man, that is a LOT of work to try to match things up - I know!! I really appreciate what time and effort you put into this.

I wanted to have a ‘analog random’ control signal, of course, just for the reason you mentioned...and the plan was there, but it just didn’t get into this first version of the OS. The trick you did is also the same idea that I did....but we need a better way.

As for extending the Envelope mod sources to include LFOs - yes, this is also currently on the list, and they are working on that, as well as a few other things.

cheers,
John B.

synthwalker
Posts: 50
Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2011 3:16 am
Location: France

Re: Solaris VS Jupiter 8 & OB8

Post by synthwalker » Sat Aug 13, 2011 3:41 am

Super boulot Alex !

Sometimes I prefer the sound of Solaris, very interesting...
I agree we need a simple way to get analog drift, both in osc freq and phase.
When I get mine, I'll benchmark it to P5 Rev2, P5 Rev3, Prophet-VS, PPG Wave 2.3 and Minimoog Vger and amongst others.

darkshine75011
Posts: 43
Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2012 10:20 am

Re: Solaris VS Jupiter 8 & OB8

Post by darkshine75011 » Sat Apr 14, 2012 10:52 am

A very big thank you alexg in this laborious work
I hope that John will go very far with its Solaris
can be in a galaxy far ....(museum of legends synthesizers)
This test really helped me to buy my solaris

Thanks!

darkshine75011
Posts: 43
Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2012 10:20 am

Re: Solaris VS Jupiter 8 & OB8

Post by darkshine75011 » Sat Apr 14, 2012 10:56 am

Just a little more effort and it will be perfect :wink:

christeck
Posts: 80
Joined: Sun Sep 21, 2014 9:13 am

Re: Solaris VS Jupiter 8 & OB8

Post by christeck » Tue Nov 04, 2014 1:21 pm

darkshine75011 wrote:I was happy to find a nice way to slightly and randomly change the pitch of each new note on the Solaris :
I used an LFO, in S/H mode with a frequency (rate) = 0 but retrigered (at each note).
Very very small amount to modulate the pitch of the oscillators.
I just tried it to randomize the notes a bit at each keypress. However, in polyphonic mode, this results in two different values only (which flips at each 4th keypress or so) and in a constant offset in mono mode.

Steps to reproduce:

- Set LFO 1 to S&H, a rate of 0 and to be retriggered.

- Apply it to an oscillator's pitch

Is the random feature gone or did I miss a setting?

John Bowen
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Re: Solaris VS Jupiter 8 & OB8

Post by John Bowen » Tue Nov 04, 2014 1:40 pm

Unfortunately, at the moment it's not guaranteed that you will get a random value (although this is one of the ways I wanted the function to be programmed). What Alex found may have been worked because of where each voice was when the LFO values were engaged, but as you have said, it's also the case that sometimes only a couple of values get downloaded into the voice structure for this modulation.

christeck
Posts: 80
Joined: Sun Sep 21, 2014 9:13 am

Re: Solaris VS Jupiter 8 & OB8

Post by christeck » Wed Nov 05, 2014 10:09 am

Thanks for the clarification, John. It saves my head from being scratched further :) .

Here's how I got it to work anyway:

- Set LFO 1 to S&H, a rate of 10 (or more) and to be retriggered.

- Apply it to an oscillator's pitch.

- Modulate its rate by one of the envelopes, at the maximum negative level.

- Raise the envelope's sustain level to the maximum value.

- Set the attack time to the minimum value, e.g. 0.

"Works for me". Though for polyphonic sounds only.

HTH :) .

Patate le mgae
Posts: 135
Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2011 3:17 am

Re: Solaris VS Jupiter 8 & OB8

Post by Patate le mgae » Sun Nov 30, 2014 3:23 am

Waouaouh ! Thank you very much for this, not obvious at all, idea.
I've spent hours to try to achieve this and fail.
Nice, nice, nice.

M-Prod
Posts: 107
Joined: Mon Jun 24, 2013 9:19 am

Re: Solaris VS Jupiter 8 & OB8

Post by M-Prod » Mon Apr 20, 2015 11:26 am

christeck wrote:Thanks for the clarification, John. It saves my head from being scratched further :) .

Here's how I got it to work anyway:

- Set LFO 1 to S&H, a rate of 10 (or more) and to be retriggered.

- Apply it to an oscillator's pitch.

- Modulate its rate by one of the envelopes, at the maximum negative level.

- Raise the envelope's sustain level to the maximum value.

- Set the attack time to the minimum value, e.g. 0.

"Works for me". Though for polyphonic sounds only.

HTH :) .
Hi christeck,

Thanks. Smart workaround. I might add to add some sustain so the speed doesn't bump up after release

M-Prod
Posts: 107
Joined: Mon Jun 24, 2013 9:19 am

Re: Solaris VS Jupiter 8 & OB8

Post by M-Prod » Mon Apr 20, 2015 11:56 am

And Alex would You be willing to share these patches? I love them.

christeck
Posts: 80
Joined: Sun Sep 21, 2014 9:13 am

Re: Solaris VS Jupiter 8 & OB8

Post by christeck » Mon Apr 20, 2015 2:11 pm

For the moment, it's not possible to choose an lfo as a source of modulation for the attacks, decay or release time of the envelopes.
John, it would be really nice !
The same here. The modulation capabilities for the envelopes are limited (though the essentials are provided).

John Bowen
Site Admin
Posts: 1607
Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2007 3:00 am

Re: Solaris VS Jupiter 8 & OB8

Post by John Bowen » Mon Apr 20, 2015 2:17 pm

christeck wrote:
For the moment, it's not possible to choose an lfo as a source of modulation for the attacks, decay or release time of the envelopes.
John, it would be really nice !
The same here. The modulation capabilities for the envelopes are limited (though the essentials are provided).
Yes, this was discussed earlier on. The question/problem was how to use the LFO output as a controller for envelope values which occur only on key-down events. Obviously, it only makes sense to grab a value from the LFO when the note is played. You can’t continuously modulate any envelope segment once the EG is underway.

Is that what you are requesting?

M-Prod
Posts: 107
Joined: Mon Jun 24, 2013 9:19 am

Re: Solaris VS Jupiter 8 & OB8

Post by M-Prod » Tue Apr 21, 2015 10:12 am

My guess is this is about anolog style randomization of the envelope values as discusses elsewhere

M-Prod
Posts: 107
Joined: Mon Jun 24, 2013 9:19 am

Re: Solaris VS Jupiter 8 & OB8

Post by M-Prod » Tue Apr 21, 2015 11:23 am

Actually I was just making a song where I automate the decay with an lfo in live. Eg see attached movie. Ps this movie is not the song but a way to show you the technique used in the song
http://youtu.be/gQwmwlD0sys

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