Final Look
-
John Bowen
- Site Admin
- Posts: 2003
- Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2007 3:00 am
- Contact:
Final Look
For those curious, here's a rendering of the (almost) final look for production (light colored version, obviously):
-
ThreeFingersOfLove
- Posts: 76
- Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 4:07 am
- Location: Greece
- Contact:
-
John Bowen
- Site Admin
- Posts: 2003
- Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2007 3:00 am
- Contact:
-
matocaster
- Posts: 66
- Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2007 11:19 am
- Location: Pacific NW
- Contact:
-
scope4live
- Posts: 546
- Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2008 4:19 pm
- Location: Somewhere between 120 and 150bpm
- Contact:
-
John Bowen
- Site Admin
- Posts: 2003
- Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2007 3:00 am
- Contact:
Just like the plug-in before it, it's been interesting to see how the hardware design has 'evolved' (I think I can say that word here without intending any other reference!). I always had this idea in my mind to have the plug-in arranged in such a way that it would be fairly easy to put into hardware.
Now that we've gone through several iterations on paper, with countless meetings and discussions about things, it's gratifying for me to see the same kind of 'end result' one gets from refining and developing software manifested in the final front panel design.
However - it's even more important to have the positive user feedback we're already reading here - "Thank You" everyone for your continued interest and trust!
John B.
Now that we've gone through several iterations on paper, with countless meetings and discussions about things, it's gratifying for me to see the same kind of 'end result' one gets from refining and developing software manifested in the final front panel design.
However - it's even more important to have the positive user feedback we're already reading here - "Thank You" everyone for your continued interest and trust!
John B.
-
scope4live
- Posts: 546
- Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2008 4:19 pm
- Location: Somewhere between 120 and 150bpm
- Contact:
-
rhodeschroma
- Posts: 9
- Joined: Sat Mar 08, 2008 9:30 am
- Location: Baltimore, MD
- Contact:
Hello Everyone!
Although I have been following the development of the Solaris for some time, this is my first posting and wanted to share my thoughts about this new product. I am very interested in hearing and hopefully actually playing this new synth when it finally arrives in its completed form.
I do question some of the design implementation decisions and wonder if there should is a more practical approach to the interface implementation design and layout that would have passed along some cost savings to potential users and consumers though. $4000 is a lot of coin for a synth. There is simply no way many can or even would consider the Solaris at this price, including me - especially in this current global economic crisis when there are comparable synths such as the Virus in the $2500 range to say the least. Afterall, the Solaris is a VA, not a true analog which could have accounted for some of the price difference.
While I'm sure there are feature the Solaris has that other synths dont offer, you can go back and forth all day and find features in other synths at lower price points that the Solaris doesnt have as well such as a more robust effect section and 16 part multitimbral.
When analog synths first arrived, they contained full hardware interfaces for manipulating the various components of the sound such as filter, envelopes and LFOs, etc. This was simply the only way to interact with these synthesizers because advanced CPUs or menu systems weren’t developed yet.
When synthesizers were capable of using menu systems most developer stripped all the interactive interface tools such as knobs to reduce cost. This left many people complaining for years until there was a resurgence which struck a balance between offering a combination of the best of both worlds - interface modulation knobs or sliders combined within an intuitive menu system which also kept the price point within reason.
Looking at the final design of the Solaris, one can’t help but notice an awful lot of redundancy in the layout and interactive interface components. I question how much cost saving could have been accomplished by say reducing the number of LCDs down to 2; the main center one and 1 two-line with a single row of 5 knobs underneath for editing.
While having 2 different color models is nice, is it really necessary? (I like the lighter one, by the way). Is having a numeric keypad necessary when there is already a master dial or vise-versa?
If there were a series of buttons to activate the OSC, Filter, Amp and LFO sections, you would essentially have access to the same parameters with just a single button click. (This is similar to what Access did with the Virus Snow for instance.)
You can only look at one LCD at a time anyway, so this seems like a bit much that while gracious, really just adds cost. This design approach could reduce and eliminated many of the buttons and further reducing cost without sacrificing too much interface interaction. In addition to many of the knobs being redundant, many of the buttons are as well (for instance the set of 3 buttons to the left of each of the 2 line LCDs).
While many would welcome additional LCDs, I see it as a liability which can potentially increase the likelihood and chances of having one or more fail at some point. Reducing these redundant items may have also reduced the physical depth and weight of the synth which could also have translated in to further cost savings. It may also prove better ergonomics by not having to lean forward or reach to view or use the top row of LCDs further away from the player in a sitting position.
Also, implementing a touchpad similar to what is found on the Z1 or V-Synth in place of a separate joystick and ribbon controller may have been a more up to date design that could have reduced cost further, killed two birds with one stone and potentially in the joystick case, less prone to damage during transporting the synth.
I’m not for a minuet suggesting all the interactive modulation knobs should be eliminated in place of a full menu system synth, but rather a more practical balance that can reduce the cost for the rest of us who otherwise couldn’t afford a Solaris in its current state or price point. Even if the current design was less expensive, the interface design is a bit overkill and somewhat redundant.
My observations aren’t in anyway designed to inflame or discredit the hard work John Bowen has put into this instrument, but rather offer objective constructive criticisms to make the product not only potentially better, but more accessible to market reach.
Maybe a good solution is to potentially also develop a rackmount (light) version for the rest of us who may want the Solaris sound and features but at a more reasonable and accessable form factor and pricepoint.
Regards,
Dano
Although I have been following the development of the Solaris for some time, this is my first posting and wanted to share my thoughts about this new product. I am very interested in hearing and hopefully actually playing this new synth when it finally arrives in its completed form.
I do question some of the design implementation decisions and wonder if there should is a more practical approach to the interface implementation design and layout that would have passed along some cost savings to potential users and consumers though. $4000 is a lot of coin for a synth. There is simply no way many can or even would consider the Solaris at this price, including me - especially in this current global economic crisis when there are comparable synths such as the Virus in the $2500 range to say the least. Afterall, the Solaris is a VA, not a true analog which could have accounted for some of the price difference.
While I'm sure there are feature the Solaris has that other synths dont offer, you can go back and forth all day and find features in other synths at lower price points that the Solaris doesnt have as well such as a more robust effect section and 16 part multitimbral.
When analog synths first arrived, they contained full hardware interfaces for manipulating the various components of the sound such as filter, envelopes and LFOs, etc. This was simply the only way to interact with these synthesizers because advanced CPUs or menu systems weren’t developed yet.
When synthesizers were capable of using menu systems most developer stripped all the interactive interface tools such as knobs to reduce cost. This left many people complaining for years until there was a resurgence which struck a balance between offering a combination of the best of both worlds - interface modulation knobs or sliders combined within an intuitive menu system which also kept the price point within reason.
Looking at the final design of the Solaris, one can’t help but notice an awful lot of redundancy in the layout and interactive interface components. I question how much cost saving could have been accomplished by say reducing the number of LCDs down to 2; the main center one and 1 two-line with a single row of 5 knobs underneath for editing.
While having 2 different color models is nice, is it really necessary? (I like the lighter one, by the way). Is having a numeric keypad necessary when there is already a master dial or vise-versa?
If there were a series of buttons to activate the OSC, Filter, Amp and LFO sections, you would essentially have access to the same parameters with just a single button click. (This is similar to what Access did with the Virus Snow for instance.)
You can only look at one LCD at a time anyway, so this seems like a bit much that while gracious, really just adds cost. This design approach could reduce and eliminated many of the buttons and further reducing cost without sacrificing too much interface interaction. In addition to many of the knobs being redundant, many of the buttons are as well (for instance the set of 3 buttons to the left of each of the 2 line LCDs).
While many would welcome additional LCDs, I see it as a liability which can potentially increase the likelihood and chances of having one or more fail at some point. Reducing these redundant items may have also reduced the physical depth and weight of the synth which could also have translated in to further cost savings. It may also prove better ergonomics by not having to lean forward or reach to view or use the top row of LCDs further away from the player in a sitting position.
Also, implementing a touchpad similar to what is found on the Z1 or V-Synth in place of a separate joystick and ribbon controller may have been a more up to date design that could have reduced cost further, killed two birds with one stone and potentially in the joystick case, less prone to damage during transporting the synth.
I’m not for a minuet suggesting all the interactive modulation knobs should be eliminated in place of a full menu system synth, but rather a more practical balance that can reduce the cost for the rest of us who otherwise couldn’t afford a Solaris in its current state or price point. Even if the current design was less expensive, the interface design is a bit overkill and somewhat redundant.
My observations aren’t in anyway designed to inflame or discredit the hard work John Bowen has put into this instrument, but rather offer objective constructive criticisms to make the product not only potentially better, but more accessible to market reach.
Maybe a good solution is to potentially also develop a rackmount (light) version for the rest of us who may want the Solaris sound and features but at a more reasonable and accessable form factor and pricepoint.
Regards,
Dano
-
John Bowen
- Site Admin
- Posts: 2003
- Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2007 3:00 am
- Contact:
Dano,
Thanks for your thoughtful post. All good points, most of which have been discussed at length internally for some time. The idea of this interface design IS the redundancy of displays and controls, obviously - otherwise, why do it, as you point out? It's really more about something I envisioned, and have always wanted to pursue - eliminating the stepping through of deep layers of menus for a more immediate experience, an aspect of the former 'analog days', combined with the deep functionality of what digital offers today. As it has turned out, there is still a number of menus and pages of parameters one needs to negotiate because of changes I've made to the UI and parameter presentation, as well as an increase in functionality and flexibility. Whether this will be worth it will have to be left to the customers to decide.
re: 2 colors - having several colors is not a huge factor in the costs - more of an inconvenience in terms of keeping things in stock and ordering, etc.. That being said, most likely we will settle on a single color for the normal production run, leaving the lighter color just to the Limited Edition series.
re: keypad and master dial - these have different functions, actually, so yes, both will be needed.
re: touchpad vs joystick - I also went back and forth on this, but decided (after a user survey) that the physical joystick was more representative of what I wanted it for (the Vector stuff), and this was also the point from the user survey....not to mention some problems brought up about touchpads and their accuracy after many years of use.
Obviously, if the Solaris generates enough interest to warrant a rack or tabletop unit (what we had originally planned, by the way), we will have to look into doing it. If not, well, then there are other ideas percolating around as well
cheers,
John B.
Thanks for your thoughtful post. All good points, most of which have been discussed at length internally for some time. The idea of this interface design IS the redundancy of displays and controls, obviously - otherwise, why do it, as you point out? It's really more about something I envisioned, and have always wanted to pursue - eliminating the stepping through of deep layers of menus for a more immediate experience, an aspect of the former 'analog days', combined with the deep functionality of what digital offers today. As it has turned out, there is still a number of menus and pages of parameters one needs to negotiate because of changes I've made to the UI and parameter presentation, as well as an increase in functionality and flexibility. Whether this will be worth it will have to be left to the customers to decide.
re: 2 colors - having several colors is not a huge factor in the costs - more of an inconvenience in terms of keeping things in stock and ordering, etc.. That being said, most likely we will settle on a single color for the normal production run, leaving the lighter color just to the Limited Edition series.
re: keypad and master dial - these have different functions, actually, so yes, both will be needed.
re: touchpad vs joystick - I also went back and forth on this, but decided (after a user survey) that the physical joystick was more representative of what I wanted it for (the Vector stuff), and this was also the point from the user survey....not to mention some problems brought up about touchpads and their accuracy after many years of use.
Obviously, if the Solaris generates enough interest to warrant a rack or tabletop unit (what we had originally planned, by the way), we will have to look into doing it. If not, well, then there are other ideas percolating around as well
cheers,
John B.
Thanks for your thoughtful post…
Thanks for the reply John! Whether price over interface redundancy or interface redundancy over price prevails, I suspect it will be some of both. I do hope the Solaris is a great success and very fortuitous for you! I would love to have one.
re: 2 colors - having several colors is not a huge factor in the costs - more of an inconvenience in terms of keeping things in stock and ordering, etc.. That being said, most likely we will settle on a single color for the normal production run, leaving the lighter color just to the Limited Edition series.
Makes sense. The lighter one is killer!
re: keypad and master dial - these have different functions, actually, so yes, both will be needed.
Fair enough, though the point I was trying to convey is COULD the functions of one be intergrated into the other as is true with many other synths? Two examples are an XV-5080 that use a dial system a Z1 uses a keypad system but each not both…
re: touchpad vs joystick - not to mention some problems brought up about touchpads and their accuracy after many years of use.
Hey wait a minuet. The existing ribbon controller IS a touchpad! (I think I gotchya John). I can only speak of my own experiences and experiences of people whom I know. That said, I’ve never had a problem as it relates to the touchpad on my Z1 which works flawlessly to this day after 10 years of use. One could argue the joystick could just as well wear out, become loose or unresponsive with the same amount of usage or less.
Touchpads are well integrated into many devices besides synths. I haven’t met a laptop computer without one yet…
Obviously, if the Solaris generates enough interest to warrant a rack or tabletop unit (what we had originally planned, by the way), we will have to look into doing it. If not, well, then there are other ideas percolating around as well
Great to know! Here's one vote for a rackmount (2 spaces!) I’ll keep a watchful eye and ear out!
Dano
Thanks for the reply John! Whether price over interface redundancy or interface redundancy over price prevails, I suspect it will be some of both. I do hope the Solaris is a great success and very fortuitous for you! I would love to have one.
re: 2 colors - having several colors is not a huge factor in the costs - more of an inconvenience in terms of keeping things in stock and ordering, etc.. That being said, most likely we will settle on a single color for the normal production run, leaving the lighter color just to the Limited Edition series.
Makes sense. The lighter one is killer!
re: keypad and master dial - these have different functions, actually, so yes, both will be needed.
Fair enough, though the point I was trying to convey is COULD the functions of one be intergrated into the other as is true with many other synths? Two examples are an XV-5080 that use a dial system a Z1 uses a keypad system but each not both…
re: touchpad vs joystick - not to mention some problems brought up about touchpads and their accuracy after many years of use.
Hey wait a minuet. The existing ribbon controller IS a touchpad! (I think I gotchya John). I can only speak of my own experiences and experiences of people whom I know. That said, I’ve never had a problem as it relates to the touchpad on my Z1 which works flawlessly to this day after 10 years of use. One could argue the joystick could just as well wear out, become loose or unresponsive with the same amount of usage or less.
Touchpads are well integrated into many devices besides synths. I haven’t met a laptop computer without one yet…
Obviously, if the Solaris generates enough interest to warrant a rack or tabletop unit (what we had originally planned, by the way), we will have to look into doing it. If not, well, then there are other ideas percolating around as well
Great to know! Here's one vote for a rackmount (2 spaces!) I’ll keep a watchful eye and ear out!
Dano
-
John Bowen
- Site Admin
- Posts: 2003
- Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2007 3:00 am
- Contact:
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests