shift lock for faster value changes

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Jaulus
Posts: 12
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 9:54 pm

shift lock for faster value changes

Post by Jaulus » Sun Oct 21, 2012 2:14 pm

When I used the Solaris in a live Session, I wanted to make extensive use of altering the LFO rates with the knobs. But they change the values so slow that it was not possible to make rhythmical use of. The value-changes only behave like on an analog synth when I hold down shift, but I have no third hand (one for playing on the keyboard, one for the knobs, one for pressing shift). So is it possible to add a shift lock on the shift key, to have fast value changes constant available? You press shift once it's locked, you press shift another time, it's unlocked (like capslock on the computer). I think the many knobs on the Solaris are a big plus, but with the default manipulation speed of the LFO speed I have a problem. Maybe other sections would also profit from that option as well.

Otherwise I'm very excited about this synth!
Solaris, Sunsyn MKII, Wave 2.2, Andromeda, Omega 8, G2X, OB8, Jupiter 6, MKS80, Minimoog, VX 600, Trident MK2

John Bowen
Site Admin
Posts: 1756
Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2007 3:00 am

Re: shift lock for faster value changes

Post by John Bowen » Mon Oct 22, 2012 8:47 am

Thanks for your input! I agree, I've often wanted this function, and we did make a short discussion of it early on. The problem was that we didn't provide an LED data line to that switch, so we couldn't make it a lighted switch without remaking the circuit board (and to indicate that the Shift button was in 'locked' position, an LED there would make it easiest to indicate).
Granted, the Shift function was added on later in my thinking, so I hadn't planned on the need for shift lock, but it was obvious pretty early to me.

So, actually we just need a way to indicate that its locked; otherwise, we could make it so that:
1) it stays at the alternate parameter range with each key press (so it's not momentary)
2) make it so you need to do something like a 'double-click' of the Shift key to put it into locked mode (and same to get it out)
3) Or, offer a System setting that tells the Solaris you want the Shift button to act like #1 or #2 at all times, or set to Momentary or Toggle mode

Not sure how to best display the fact that it's locked; perhaps this is not as crucial a thing as I think? I mean, you obviously would note that certain parameter values are not changing as fast as you'd like (comparing, say, LFO rate with Filter Cutoff).

Any comments or suggestions would be appreciated!

john b.

Jaulus
Posts: 12
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 9:54 pm

Re: shift lock for faster value changes

Post by Jaulus » Mon Oct 22, 2012 3:03 pm

I see... if the implementation is a bit complicated to add, because of the indication, a vice versa value behaviour of value manipulation may be appreciated. Fast value changes on all parameters+knobs as a default, and with shift you access slower changes (like switching to a loupe). Because, when you have time to occupy yourself in detail with little nuances of sound programming, you may use your fingers for shift as well. Otherwise in stressful live situations, I'd like to be to be most flexible and therefore I would prefer fast reactions.

But 2) and 3) make good sense as well. To me, 2) more than 3), because you can toggle easyly, which is a strong point. Maybe the locked shift only would need an indiction on the main screen, not with a led.
Solaris, Sunsyn MKII, Wave 2.2, Andromeda, Omega 8, G2X, OB8, Jupiter 6, MKS80, Minimoog, VX 600, Trident MK2

scope4live
Posts: 548
Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2008 4:19 pm
Location: Somewhere between 120 and 150bpm

Re: shift lock for faster value changes

Post by scope4live » Wed Oct 24, 2012 4:45 pm

Couldn't multipliers be added to the Assignment buttons...?
I really find those handy live, along with everything else too of course.
Magnus C350 on a TV Dinner Tray Stand with 2 x PigNose Amps for stereo


https://soundcloud.com/jimmyvee/wormhole

John Bowen
Site Admin
Posts: 1756
Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2007 3:00 am

Re: shift lock for faster value changes

Post by John Bowen » Wed Oct 24, 2012 8:19 pm

Jimmy,
You don't mean the 2 Assignable buttons, do you?

scope4live
Posts: 548
Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2008 4:19 pm
Location: Somewhere between 120 and 150bpm

Re: shift lock for faster value changes

Post by scope4live » Thu Oct 25, 2012 12:35 pm

Negatory, the 5 Assignable buttons.
Maybe having normal/fine setting for Assign 1
5x for Assign 2
10x for Assign 3, etc.

I sometimes make a patch with filter/resonance/damping, etc. at zero values and use the 5 assignment buttons, but they really seem unsuitable for LFO rates as they are.
For example a setiing of 0 on the LFO, and a setting of 0 on Assigment Button 1 seemed logical to me but as soon as I hit a value of 1, the LFO is already up around 1.000.
Which is what gave me the idea.

Otherwise I can easily store the preset with LFO I wish to adjust the rate on, displayed, and when recalled, I can reach over and make adjustments.

The Mod Wheel being assigned in the LFO section with delay/fade/rate is pretty smooth, probably the best choice right now.

But Solaris is the best live synth I've ever used, so please don't think I am not satisfied.
Wherever I run into a little problem, there are always at least a few workarounds to easily satisfy.

Your Friend & Mine.

Ankyu...
Magnus C350 on a TV Dinner Tray Stand with 2 x PigNose Amps for stereo


https://soundcloud.com/jimmyvee/wormhole

John Bowen
Site Admin
Posts: 1756
Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2007 3:00 am

Re: shift lock for faster value changes

Post by John Bowen » Thu Oct 25, 2012 5:42 pm

I guess you are meaning the Performance knobs that act as +/- offsets to whatever parameter you assign...good point!

marzzz
Posts: 221
Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2008 8:07 pm

Re: shift lock for faster value changes

Post by marzzz » Mon May 13, 2013 5:14 pm

Jaulus wrote:I see... if the implementation is a bit complicated to add, because of the indication, a vice versa value behaviour of value manipulation may be appreciated. Fast value changes on all parameters+knobs as a default, and with shift you access slower changes (like switching to a loupe). Because, when you have time to occupy yourself in detail with little nuances of sound programming, you may use your fingers for shift as well. Otherwise in stressful live situations, I'd like to be to be most flexible and therefore I would prefer fast reactions.

But 2) and 3) make good sense as well. To me, 2) more than 3), because you can toggle easyly, which is a strong point. Maybe the locked shift only would need an indiction on the main screen, not with a led.
I have to say I agree with this- the knobs should be scaled so that you can move thru a range of values quickly, and then hit shift for fine tuning of the exact amount.

polybonk
Posts: 8
Joined: Sun Jul 21, 2013 1:11 am

Re: shift lock for faster value changes

Post by polybonk » Sun Jul 21, 2013 3:06 pm

The way I think it should be done is having a 5th page on the home menu.

Then being able to have the default shift behavior Fast/Slow for every main/commonly used parameter set by the user.

You could scroll through the list with one knob just like picking a mod.

Then the next knob can set fast/slow

This is definitely needed because if you lock shift the filter freqs will go slow (which is great for some styles) but the resonance will jump like crazy and go into self oscillation when bumped. Not good at all.

John Bowen
Site Admin
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Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2007 3:00 am

Re: shift lock for faster value changes

Post by John Bowen » Sun Jul 21, 2013 7:39 pm

polybonk wrote:The way I think it should be done is having a 5th page on the home menu.
Then being able to have the default shift behavior Fast/Slow for every main/commonly used parameter set by the user.
You could scroll through the list with one knob just like picking a mod.
Then the next knob can set fast/slow...
Well, my comments are:

1) I would have it on the System page, not the Home page, and save the parameter settings with the global init.
2) That's potentially a LOT of "every main/commonly used parameter" sets! But I think you could make a suggested list for us...that would be helpful.
3) I have no idea if individual acceleration behavior can be done for parameters - right now it's just a toggle for one set of values to another, globally. I guess you just have the code check for each member of the list provided in #2 above, and see what the setting should be, when the shift is pressed.
4) And this still doesn't address how to handle the Lock function of the Shift button. With this approach, I think we would just have a single Shift button parameter for 'momentary/toggle' state.

inaheartbeat
Posts: 34
Joined: Sat May 19, 2012 12:39 pm

Re: shift lock for faster value changes

Post by inaheartbeat » Mon Jul 22, 2013 3:18 pm

What if you allowed a double tap on the shift button to toggle the shift/unshift? Instead of relying on an LED indicator which is not there just use the graphical interface to put an "up arrow" graphic if it is in shift lock or no graphic if it is not shift locked. You could couple this with a configuration parameter that enables or disables the double tap feature of the shift button.

John Bowen
Site Admin
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Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2007 3:00 am

Re: shift lock for faster value changes

Post by John Bowen » Mon Jul 22, 2013 7:48 pm

inaheartbeat wrote:What if you allowed a double tap on the shift button to toggle the shift/unshift? Instead of relying on an LED indicator which is not there just use the graphical interface to put an "up arrow" graphic if it is in shift lock or no graphic if it is not shift locked. You could couple this with a configuration parameter that enables or disables the double tap feature of the shift button.
This is a very good solution...thanks!

And we wouldn't really need a configuration parameter, as I can't think of any time where a double click of the Shift button would be confused for anything else.

john b.

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