Diagram Flow

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Re: Diagram Flow

by mickeyl » Tue Apr 19, 2011 1:15 am

In my opinion, S/PDIF doesn't need a master volume.

Re: Diagram Flow

by ScofieldKid » Mon Apr 18, 2011 2:40 pm

Got it. Thanks for the explanation.

Good point about the other outs as well. Using a clean channel does not rob an FX slot. Good to know.

As for the volume only on outs 1/2, that makes sense as well. I think that anybody who is using the multiple outputs is going to have their own "knob" on their hardware interface or physical hardware mixer. The layout seems fine.

Re: Diagram Flow

by John Bowen » Mon Apr 18, 2011 6:30 am

ScofieldKid wrote:So to the right of the Amp paths, I think we have an implied mixer that sums the 4 paths into what is called "Synth". Since the AMPs have PAN then "Synth" is a stereo channel. So the FX operate on the stereo input. (Correct me if any of that is wrong.)

If you only use, for example, one set of outputs Out 1/2, to use multiple FX, they have to be in series. This is because Out 1/2, for example, only has one item possible as input. So the most likely setup in the studio would be one pair of outputs as clean, and the other as FX. And so on. (Correct me if any of that is wrong.)

I just make this point to avoid what might be incorrectly implied by the diagram. And to make it clear that FX are global at input, hence the name, "Global FX", not a per-voice-fx-path.
This is correct. And technically, after the 4 AMP (now VCA) outputs and mix into a stereo 'synth' signal, there is another pair of VCAs that handle the overall voice output, and these VCAs are hardwired to Envelope 6. Then the Synth output is assigned in the Output page to any (or all) stereo outputs.
Don't forget you can also have several FX channels in series setup, so that you could have the clean synth output 1/2, the first FX channel (which has, say, 2 FX in series with the dry synth as input) coming out of 3/4, and then another FX channel that has the first FX channel as input, coming out of 5/6 with both FC channels in series, etc..

Also....very important to know, the Master Volume knob only affects the Outs of 1/2 at the moment. We are trying to decide if we need to do this for the S/PDIF, but it would introduce an additional converter for the analog pot to control the digital out, and right now this is a real problem.

Re: Diagram Flow

by ScofieldKid » Sun Apr 17, 2011 11:13 pm

So to the right of the Amp paths, I think we have an implied mixer that sums the 4 paths into what is called "Synth". Since the AMPs have PAN then "Synth" is a stereo channel. So the FX operate on the stereo input. (Correct me if any of that is wrong.)

If you only use, for example, one set of outputs Out 1/2, to use multiple FX, they have to be in series. This is because Out 1/2, for example, only has one item possible as input. So the most likely setup in the studio would be one pair of outputs as clean, and the other as FX. And so on. (Correct me if any of that is wrong.)

I just make this point to avoid what might be incorrectly implied by the diagram. And to make it clear that FX are global at input, hence the name, "Global FX", not a per-voice-fx-path.

by ThreeFingersOfLove » Tue Apr 13, 2010 11:00 am

John Bowen wrote:Let's say you want some kind of LFO modulation for your osc or filter cutoff, so you select an LFO as a Source and set the initial Amount to something - +5 semitones. But you really only want this to happen with Aftertouch, so now you select Aftertouch as a Control source, and dial up the strength to 100%. Now the LFO modulation will only be heard as you apply Aftertouch.

-John b.
Thanks John,

that's what I had in mind. It's great to have this option!

Regards,
Yannis

by ScofieldKid » Mon Apr 12, 2010 9:41 pm

OK. Here's a last one, with some of the lines cleaned up a bit. I'll go back and delete some of the previous ones.

Image

by John Bowen » Mon Apr 12, 2010 6:31 am

Let's say you want some kind of LFO modulation for your osc or filter cutoff, so you select an LFO as a Source and set the initial Amount to something - +5 semitones. But you really only want this to happen with Aftertouch, so now you select Aftertouch as a Control source, and dial up the strength to 100%. Now the LFO modulation will only be heard as you apply Aftertouch.

-John b.

by ThreeFingersOfLove » Mon Apr 12, 2010 1:11 am

John Bowen wrote:
ThreeFingersOfLove wrote:John,

I would like to ask:
1. How many modulations sources can modulate a filter? are their depths/offsets adjustable?

2. How many modulation sources can modulate an oscillator? are their depths/offsets adjustable?
All oscillators and filters have 4 independent modulation paths each. For each path you have the following structure:
Source - Amount - Control - Strength - Destination
The Mod Source list is quite extensive; it includes all audio sources and all control sources. The Amount is an initial amount; the Control and Strength act as a sidechain control of the initial amount. The list of Control Mod Sources for sidechain control do not include audio rate sources. Both the initial Amount and Strength parameters are bipolar.
Hi John,

thanks for the detailed explanation but I was wondering if you could clarify the parameters Control and Strength a bit?

Am I right to think that "Control" controls how much the mod amount is altered AFTER it occurs? If that's the case, then it must be a real-time controller like aftertouch or the mod-wheel, no?

What does the other do? Does the "Strength" parameter control how much "Control" is applied?

by scope4live » Sun Apr 11, 2010 3:54 pm

That's awesome Brotha' Man Scofield..
I can try making a patch in Modular but I think I will need 8 x Modular IV Patches all in a project window with an insane amount of switches for audio and MIDI....

Coolness.

by ScofieldKid » Sun Apr 11, 2010 11:57 am

Thanks. I'll do 1 more with a bit of clean-up and add a text box.

It's actually easier to explain than it is to draw. Something like:

Any output is routable to any input in the signal path, including feedback. The only exceptions are the pre-or-post FX and AMPs; inputs to these must be from the local numbered path.

by valis » Sun Apr 11, 2010 9:31 am

Nice work. :D

by ScofieldKid » Sun Apr 11, 2010 12:31 am

updated later posting.

by John Bowen » Thu Apr 08, 2010 5:49 pm

ThreeFingersOfLove wrote:John,

I would like to ask:
1. How many modulations sources can modulate a filter? are their depths/offsets adjustable?

2. How many modulation sources can modulate an oscillator? are their depths/offsets adjustable?
All oscillators and filters have 4 independent modulation paths each. For each path you have the following structure:
Source - Amount - Control - Strength - Destination
The Mod Source list is quite extensive; it includes all audio sources and all control sources. The Amount is an initial amount; the Control and Strength act as a sidechain control of the initial amount. The list of Control Mod Sources for sidechain control do not include audio rate sources. Both the initial Amount and Strength parameters are bipolar.

The possible destinations depend on the section the mod paths are in - for oscillators, you have exponential and linear frequency mod, or shape mod. For the filters, you have cutoff & resonance for all, plus damping for the Comb Filter, and crossfade and frequency for the Vocal Filter.
3. Is there provision for HEADROOM either to accomodate resonance build-ups or modulation of levels? If not is there some gain compensation circuit for resonance?
The Multimode Filter has gain compensation, the SSM and Mini do not (probably also not in the Obie, but I don't recall right now). You also can control the post-filter signal level at the VCA Output level.
4. Is it possible to route the output of the FX section back to the mixer? By looking at the signal flow, maybe it's possible to do physical modeling:
a. Short burst of white noise (either shaped from a AD) or directly from a small sample in order to provide the initial excitation -->
b. Input mixer that provides a z-1 function for feedback IF there's provision to route the signal back. The z-1 function can be a crude 6-pole lowpass filter which is used in a lot of Karplus strong models -->
c. Delay lines: there is a delay FX but I wonder if it can be stacked, i.e. used multiple times (maybe even at the expense of other effects) so as to provide the tuning.
This is what the Comb Filter's Tube model is for. The Comb Filter is a delay line, and uses the onboard RAM. There is a lower limit to the frequency, based on the maximum amount of RAM allocated (I don't have the proto right now to check, but I can report what that frequency is later).
The Damping control is a 6 dB lowpass filter built into the feedback circuit of the Comb Filter. If you want to add additional filtering, at this point you will have to use 2 filters in series. The Main Effects are outside of the synth engine, and so are not integrated on a per-voice basis, as are the Comb Filters. The Main FX are not stackable, but in an 'FX Pool'. Once you use one of them in an FX Bus, it is no longer available to the other busses.

-John B.

by John Bowen » Thu Apr 08, 2010 2:52 pm

For the Amps, just add another red dotted feedback line for all the Amp Outputs-same as with the filters & mixers.
-JB

by ScofieldKid » Thu Apr 08, 2010 10:37 am

updated later posting.

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