John Bowen Synth Design

Here we have a potentially very powerful synth and yet everybody seems to want to use it to play digital recordings of sounds. That's what killed off synthesis in the first place and why the Solaris just like all other powerful synths these days, will only be used at a tiny fraction of its potential. One wonders why everybody wants all those oscs, filters, lfos, envs, and the powerful architecture if as soon as the synthesis needed for a sound gets moderately complex, people run away from it and use samples. If sampled sounds are your thing (they seem to be everybody's thing), you're better off with a sampler/romper/workstation which already has synthesis capabilities far beyond what you'll ever exploit.

You don't want to end up with a synth that's jack of all trades, master of none.

Fully agree with you.

As a lucky owner of the solaris plugin I am probably very relaxed about the (virtual) analog and subtractive/FM synthesis part since i know it is excellent.

The digital wavetable ( and in its mild form the the sampled OSC waveform) part as we know it from waldorf synths is for me a nice and useful addon to the VA capabilities.

The simple wave (fullsample of several seconds or minutes) playback is for me no necessary extension since this kind of stacked playback is the job for Rompler/samplers, IMHO.

I totally agree.
I don't buy a synth so that it can sound like a piano or a string section. I want to make totally unique, synthesised sounds (the clue is in the name - synthesiser). I like the idea of being able to load wavetables in (been a fan of wavetables ever since the PPG). But huge samples don't interest me either, it's the old story I guess, it's not how much you have but how you use what you've got!

I disagree with the above sentiments.

The sampling engine is one of the most desirable features about the Solaris for me..

FM using samples as the modulator or carrier, having them fed into rotors with other samples, audio rate modulations.. all of these things are way beyond the realm of romplers, and have the potential for fantastic sound design.

Solaris is just the extendsion of all synthesis types, simply put.

I definately would like to hear drxcm ideas in audio as soon as possible though.

It's a great idea I am going to go try right now.

Where to draw the line then ?

timestretching an pitchshifting in ? or out
Envelope follower only ? or pitch and chord analysis as well ?
Direct from disc multilayer samples ? or Akai 44 kHz ? or wav 44 kHz only ?
Modulation source only ? or also multisample velocity layered carrier in various formats ?

Sampling and sample management is an Audio workstation feature.
Sampling is not synthesis IMHO by the definition of the word synthesis.
Please keep Solaris clean.

I don't disagree that having access to samples to use them as carriers or modulators in FM/PM is a great thing ( I have Octopus in software which has some fantastic possibilities along this line).
One of the things that excited me when I heard about the Nord Wave was the inclusion of user waves (and that the user memory is maintained on power down). However, there are enough wave based synthesisers out there already aren't there? Yamaha have been flogging AWM to death since the 80's and Roland just keep putting more and more ROM and Ram into their 'Workstations'. I have an M3 and I love the sounds but my Radias is more exciting. Kurzweil have built up a huge following by using samples in a sophisticated way with VAST and I've always had a love affiar with wavetables (ala Waldorf) which is why I had to have a Blofeld.
I guess at the end of the day, keyboards can't be all things to all men, or we'd only ever buy one wouldn't we?

Making wavetables / waves on external software and importing them into Solaris seems a good idea - yeah, we don't need it for big samples - use Kontakt 3 or something like that to do it.

Perhaps some kind a wavesequencing oscillator would be great - design for example, 50 waveforms and crossfade between then, go backward and forwards. Make the wavesequence in external software - load it into Solaris - no need for complex editing stuff in Solaris.

Excellent Idea Brotha' Man Strav100.

I have such a great time w/ the Sample Oscillators using my Kyma stuff.

The samples are larger than than need to be, but they are unique in sound compared to the basic JD800 sample set from B.Walker. But those are very good quality, and quite numerous as well.

I especially like the reverse idea of yours. That is one of my favorite things but difficult to achieve w/o having to do some serious tricks in Cubase or Reaper.

I have some waves that I reversed in Cubase, and re recorded them and tried them in ProWave and Solaris.

The first experiment went really well. It was a reversed distorted guitar sample, that when mixed w/ the original and played together has a really cool solo effect.

One must play slower, melodic phrases, but it sounds very similar to Jimi Hendrix's backwards solos on the " Cry Of Love " CD, in the song " Drifting ".

Having such an option as reversing these in a synth is sick, but very, very unique and would give any synth, especially a live orientated synth like Solaris a huge leap in capabilities for sure.

I still maintain this synth will be a historical classic, that's why I begged and bribed my way in for a low serial # .

I know that John will be able to do wonders once the SC guys release XITE-1 and let John loose w/ the design and final stages.

This forum will be filled w/ sick bastards like us, and God will be watching.




I FEAR ALL WE HAVE DONE IS TO AWAKEN A SLEEPING GIANT, AND FILL HIM WITH A HARDWARE SYNTHESSTS RESOLVE...........Admiral Isaroku Yamato of the Imperial Japanese Navy, somewhere west of the Hawaiin Islands , December 1942.

I think we can trust in John that he will balance the sample capabilities with the real synthesis core of the solaris.

i agree . people are missing the real potential here.....

drxcm wrote:I disagree with the above sentiments.

The sampling engine is one of the most desirable features about the Solaris for me..

FM using samples as the modulator or carrier, having them fed into rotors with other samples, audio rate modulations.. all of these things are way beyond the realm of romplers, and have the potential for fantastic sound design.

drxcm wrote:I disagree with the above sentiments.

The sampling engine is one of the most desirable features about the Solaris for me..

FM using samples as the modulator or carrier, having them fed into rotors with other samples, audio rate modulations.. all of these things are way beyond the realm of romplers, and have the potential for fantastic sound design.

Ditto.

The ability to sample is a huge draw for me, beyond the obvious beauty of having what is essentially a polyphonic, modular synth. I use a lot of heavily processed sounds in my music, and would love to be able to process them even further, push the boundaries even more with this synth's fantastic architecture. Being able to Frequency Modulate sample against sample or sample against the vast amount of waveform options makes me giddy

A good example of something I did in battery was I recorded myself doing an octave bend on guitar, pitched it down, and bitcrushed/downsampled it. The result was a massive, elephantine sound that gave me the chills. Now add to that the Solaris’s amazing modulation capabilities and suddenly you no longer have a static waveform, but a living, evolving sound, an organic sound being eaten by circuitry. You could also simply use a complex sound like the afore mentioned and use it to modulate oscillators.

The desire to work with samples does not stem from some programming intimidation, as some seem to have painted it in this thread, but rather from curiosity and a desire to expand on the possibilities of synthesis.

Beyond all those considerations I hate the idea of using a laptop and a software sampler for things like the above mentioned. I love REAL instruments, period.

Just to clarify - the Solaris does not actually sample a sound; it can only load sample files for playback and 'mangling'

-john b.

John Bowen wrote:Just to clarify - the Solaris does not actually sample a sound; it can only load sample files for playback and 'mangling'

-john b.

That's pretty much the only context I would use samples in, as I generally record samples in a DAW as wavs and export what's interesting. You can transfer that kind of "short sample ready for mangling" material through USB to the Solaris though right?