Diagram Flow
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Diagram Flow
I would appreciate a flow chart similar to what the ARP Odyssey has on it's surface.
I know this probably would take a little time but with all of the latest Oscillator choices and tricks available in the software I am sure there is an impressive list of options and a chart would help me prepare the various footswitchl/expression pedal variations I will use with my F8.
Ankyu.
I know this probably would take a little time but with all of the latest Oscillator choices and tricks available in the software I am sure there is an impressive list of options and a chart would help me prepare the various footswitchl/expression pedal variations I will use with my F8.
Ankyu.
Magnus C350 on a TV Dinner Tray Stand with 2 x PigNose Amps for stereo
https://soundcloud.com/jimmyvee/wormhole
https://soundcloud.com/jimmyvee/wormhole
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I was thinking about that as well.
What I have sort of come up with is that it seems like it is standard layout, in a general sense. VCO -> VCF -> VCA. Then ENV and LFO's. But I am still confused a bit by when/where the mixer sits in the flowchart.
The one note I would add, the thing that might throw people, is that often you get the choice of choosing the modulator at the source. That is, instead of the traditional way of always going to LFO1 and saying, "send LFO1 to VCO1", instead you are working with VCO1 and you saying, "modulate me using LFO1". It took me a long time to wrap my head around that simple concept.
The most interesting things are going to be hard to chart, namely the mod matrix and the feedback. So, let's says we have VCO1 modulation VCO2 and VCO2 modulation VCO1. Or we have Filter1 modulating VCO2 and VCO2 modulating Filter2. And then, if the VCO's themselves contain shape changes, like the "JAWS" or the WaveTables, it gets even more interesting.
But yeah, the basic flowchart diagram might be a nice thing to have documented somewhere. Might have to be excluding most modulation.
What I have sort of come up with is that it seems like it is standard layout, in a general sense. VCO -> VCF -> VCA. Then ENV and LFO's. But I am still confused a bit by when/where the mixer sits in the flowchart.
The one note I would add, the thing that might throw people, is that often you get the choice of choosing the modulator at the source. That is, instead of the traditional way of always going to LFO1 and saying, "send LFO1 to VCO1", instead you are working with VCO1 and you saying, "modulate me using LFO1". It took me a long time to wrap my head around that simple concept.
The most interesting things are going to be hard to chart, namely the mod matrix and the feedback. So, let's says we have VCO1 modulation VCO2 and VCO2 modulation VCO1. Or we have Filter1 modulating VCO2 and VCO2 modulating Filter2. And then, if the VCO's themselves contain shape changes, like the "JAWS" or the WaveTables, it gets even more interesting.
But yeah, the basic flowchart diagram might be a nice thing to have documented somewhere. Might have to be excluding most modulation.
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1. Starting at the left side, Sound Sources: 4 Oscillators, Vector, Rotor, AM, Ext, Noise
2. Then 4 Level Mixers. Each mixer has 4 inputs, so input total = 16.
3. Then 4 Filters. Inputs to those can be any of: OSC, Filters, Mixers
4. Then 4 Amps. Each filter has an AMP and PAN Setting.
[bypass AMP/PAN if filter1 is input to filter2, etc.]
Add pre/post filter Effects: Bit Chop, Decimation, Distortion
SOUND SOURCE -> MIXER -> [FX] FILTER [FX] -> AMP
Do that four times. And then add dash lines output-to-input for:
-- Each Sound Source to every Mixer Input
-- Each Mixer Output to every other Filter Input and Mixer Input
-- Each Filter Output to every other Filter Input and Mixer Input
Key concept here seems to be Sound Sources, Mixers, then FX/Filter/AMPs,
and feedback loops allowed for all Mixer inputs and all Filter inputs.
"Sound Sources", includes oscillators, external inputs and derived oscillators.
So roughly, while remembering each Mixer has 4-inputs:
SNDSRC -> MIXER -> [FX] FILTER [FX] -> AMP
SNDSRC -> MIXER -> [FX] FILTER [FX] -> AMP
SNDSRC -> MIXER -> [FX] FILTER [FX] -> AMP
SNDSRC -> MIXER -> [FX] FILTER [FX] -> AMP
--> Global FX and Master VOL
2. Then 4 Level Mixers. Each mixer has 4 inputs, so input total = 16.
3. Then 4 Filters. Inputs to those can be any of: OSC, Filters, Mixers
4. Then 4 Amps. Each filter has an AMP and PAN Setting.
[bypass AMP/PAN if filter1 is input to filter2, etc.]
Add pre/post filter Effects: Bit Chop, Decimation, Distortion
SOUND SOURCE -> MIXER -> [FX] FILTER [FX] -> AMP
Do that four times. And then add dash lines output-to-input for:
-- Each Sound Source to every Mixer Input
-- Each Mixer Output to every other Filter Input and Mixer Input
-- Each Filter Output to every other Filter Input and Mixer Input
Key concept here seems to be Sound Sources, Mixers, then FX/Filter/AMPs,
and feedback loops allowed for all Mixer inputs and all Filter inputs.
"Sound Sources", includes oscillators, external inputs and derived oscillators.
So roughly, while remembering each Mixer has 4-inputs:
SNDSRC -> MIXER -> [FX] FILTER [FX] -> AMP
SNDSRC -> MIXER -> [FX] FILTER [FX] -> AMP
SNDSRC -> MIXER -> [FX] FILTER [FX] -> AMP
SNDSRC -> MIXER -> [FX] FILTER [FX] -> AMP
--> Global FX and Master VOL
Last edited by ScofieldKid on Mon Apr 05, 2010 2:49 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Pretty close, but the input to the Insert FX is either Mixer Output or Filter Output, and these are limited as to the selected Mixer/Filter/Insert FX number. This means that Insert FX 1 can only select from Mixer 1 or Filter 1 as its input. Similarly, each VCA's Input can only pick from the same numbered Filter or Insert FX.
Where I changed things is regarding each filter's Input - now you can select from any Audio Source, including also the outputs from any Mixer, Insert FX, Filter, or VCA. (We could make the Insert FXs and VCAs also be freely assignable, but I thought for now I would only put development money into rewriting the Filter Input code).
Another change planned is for the Audio Input list - we are adding the control signals to this list as well, so it will be possible to use the Mixers, Rotors, Vector Mixers, etc., to handle control signals (so, for example, use a Rotor to crossfade slowly from one LFO to the next, or the joystick connected to a Vector Mixer to mix LFO or Envelope Outputs, etc.). This matches the plug-in version of the Solaris more accurately, which has a dedicated Mixer and Rotor for control signals.
Also, the final FX sections sits outside of the synthesizer section. This means the Chorus/Flanger, Phaser, Delay, and EQ are at the end of the entire signal path, and you have complete flexibility as to how these are assigned and routed.
-John B.
Where I changed things is regarding each filter's Input - now you can select from any Audio Source, including also the outputs from any Mixer, Insert FX, Filter, or VCA. (We could make the Insert FXs and VCAs also be freely assignable, but I thought for now I would only put development money into rewriting the Filter Input code).
Another change planned is for the Audio Input list - we are adding the control signals to this list as well, so it will be possible to use the Mixers, Rotors, Vector Mixers, etc., to handle control signals (so, for example, use a Rotor to crossfade slowly from one LFO to the next, or the joystick connected to a Vector Mixer to mix LFO or Envelope Outputs, etc.). This matches the plug-in version of the Solaris more accurately, which has a dedicated Mixer and Rotor for control signals.
Also, the final FX sections sits outside of the synthesizer section. This means the Chorus/Flanger, Phaser, Delay, and EQ are at the end of the entire signal path, and you have complete flexibility as to how these are assigned and routed.
-John B.
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Excellent. I figured I had the mixers backwards there. So it's more like MIXER->FILTER->AMP. Then we distinguish FX by saying "INSERTFX" as compared to GLOBALFX. So I would add MASTER VOL, OVERDRIVE, and GLOBALFX to the end of the picture. Nice to hear about the additional flexibility on the filter inputs, and on the plans for additional functionality for the derived sound sources.
Makes sense. Thanks for the clarifications.
[ I updated my previous post to make it a bit closer to reality... ]
Makes sense. Thanks for the clarifications.
[ I updated my previous post to make it a bit closer to reality... ]
Last edited by ScofieldKid on Mon Apr 05, 2010 2:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Yes this is nice but still hard to comprehend.
Hence the chart when time allows.
But I am very pleased that the Rotor from Solaris 5.0.1 with the mixer will be available.
Is it safe to assume I can still stack Waldorf Osc.'s in the Rotor and crossfade via selectable rates..?
I love the way Rotor Mix allows course and fine tune, rate, and seperate volumes.
Nothing is prettier than a Wavetable starting at 0 --7--12--7 or other combinations where pitch is applied while the Wavetable is modulated.
Hence the chart when time allows.
But I am very pleased that the Rotor from Solaris 5.0.1 with the mixer will be available.
Is it safe to assume I can still stack Waldorf Osc.'s in the Rotor and crossfade via selectable rates..?
I love the way Rotor Mix allows course and fine tune, rate, and seperate volumes.
Nothing is prettier than a Wavetable starting at 0 --7--12--7 or other combinations where pitch is applied while the Wavetable is modulated.
Magnus C350 on a TV Dinner Tray Stand with 2 x PigNose Amps for stereo
https://soundcloud.com/jimmyvee/wormhole
https://soundcloud.com/jimmyvee/wormhole
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The clarification helped, and makes the path link points much clearer.
Outputs can be taken from any locations in a single path.
Input locations are mixer inputs and filter intputs.
I'm working on a diagram as well. But it isn't ready for prime time yet.
Now that we have the paths clear, we can work on modulation hints.
(I do like the sketch in the 4.1 plugin manual, but I'm thinking more of
a flattened chart with dashed lines to the chain points. )
Outputs can be taken from any locations in a single path.
Input locations are mixer inputs and filter intputs.
I'm working on a diagram as well. But it isn't ready for prime time yet.
Now that we have the paths clear, we can work on modulation hints.
(I do like the sketch in the 4.1 plugin manual, but I'm thinking more of
a flattened chart with dashed lines to the chain points. )
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Yes. This would be of a huge benfit IMHO.
Just like some of us can look at a diagram and build a patch using Modular Synthesis, we can at least familiarize ourselves with the flow making presets easier once the units ship.
Kind of like homework in advance.
I have all of Bowens synths and use Rotors, etc.
I have incredible presets in software that sound really full for digital.
Having similar presets in the hardware must sound amazing.
Especially knowing I can use the XITE-1 and my MIDI Solutions F8 to attach controllers to parameters, I am frothing thinking about the realtime control.
Guys who don't have Solaris in software are excited, but are going to be shocked once they see the fiercest software synth transformed into hardware.
There's nothing else like this anywhere, nor will there be.
Just like some of us can look at a diagram and build a patch using Modular Synthesis, we can at least familiarize ourselves with the flow making presets easier once the units ship.
Kind of like homework in advance.
I have all of Bowens synths and use Rotors, etc.
I have incredible presets in software that sound really full for digital.
Having similar presets in the hardware must sound amazing.
Especially knowing I can use the XITE-1 and my MIDI Solutions F8 to attach controllers to parameters, I am frothing thinking about the realtime control.
Guys who don't have Solaris in software are excited, but are going to be shocked once they see the fiercest software synth transformed into hardware.
There's nothing else like this anywhere, nor will there be.
Magnus C350 on a TV Dinner Tray Stand with 2 x PigNose Amps for stereo
https://soundcloud.com/jimmyvee/wormhole
https://soundcloud.com/jimmyvee/wormhole
Scofield if you want to give me a quick rough draft and I can polish it up in Illustrator & output it in various formats (pending jb's approval of the details.)ScofieldKid wrote:The clarification helped, and makes the path link points much clearer.
Outputs can be taken from any locations in a single path.
Input locations are mixer inputs and filter intputs.
I'm working on a diagram as well. But it isn't ready for prime time yet.
Now that we have the paths clear, we can work on modulation hints.
(I do like the sketch in the 4.1 plugin manual, but I'm thinking more of
a flattened chart with dashed lines to the chain points. )
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Well....it's not like I'm not going to have something in the User's Manual for this, but to be honest - it's a bit complicated to show all routings (as some of you know).
I'll see what Brent Garlow can put together - he is the guy helping me with the User's Manual, and a master at graphics and so on.
-John B.
I'll see what Brent Garlow can put together - he is the guy helping me with the User's Manual, and a master at graphics and so on.
-John B.
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Just thinking about it, a page of even block-ier setups just showing potential "common setups" might be a good approach. Say maybe things like:
Example 1: 4 oscillators, 4 filters
Example 2: 4 oscillators, 1 filter
Example 3: 4 oscillators, 2 filters in series
Example 4: 4 oscillators, 4 filters, 2 in series + 2 in series
Example 5: 8 sound sources, 4 filters
Example 6: 8 sound sources, 1 filter
...
Example 1: 4 oscillators, 4 filters
Example 2: 4 oscillators, 1 filter
Example 3: 4 oscillators, 2 filters in series
Example 4: 4 oscillators, 4 filters, 2 in series + 2 in series
Example 5: 8 sound sources, 4 filters
Example 6: 8 sound sources, 1 filter
...
Last edited by ScofieldKid on Wed Apr 07, 2010 12:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Very nice looking, however...there's some small errors, plus some important differences to note as well.
1) there are 2 AM sections
2) there are 4 External inputs, plus the S/PDIF Input
3) the Filters have the same Input choices as do the Mixers
Also important to note that there is only one Insert FX per filter channel. Some might look at the diagram and interpret it as there being both pre- and post-filter Insert FX sections.
That's why your suggestion of other examples is smart - probably the only way to explain the flexibility of the structure.
Thanks for posting it,
John b.
1) there are 2 AM sections
2) there are 4 External inputs, plus the S/PDIF Input
3) the Filters have the same Input choices as do the Mixers
Also important to note that there is only one Insert FX per filter channel. Some might look at the diagram and interpret it as there being both pre- and post-filter Insert FX sections.
That's why your suggestion of other examples is smart - probably the only way to explain the flexibility of the structure.
Thanks for posting it,
John b.
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